2019 VPI Early visibility?

[Gearhead_42]

Who's the holder of the 2019 VPI as of now? I've gotten 2nd hand reports that a car not yet on the list was assigned a value earlier this year, but never made it to the official list. I can email, just not sure if that a @chisek item or something the new tech director (or advisory board?) is managing.

 

Yes, I'm trying to get a jump on next year's build plans

[ABR-Glen]

Mike told me at Gingerman they were trying to have the 2019 vpi done in September.

[Snorman]

You can always send an email to @chisek and ask him to give you a VPI number for a car not on the current VPI list. We did.

That being said, it would be nice if the new TAC started to help out with items like this and you could simply send an email to them, or post in the "Technical Q&A" forum and get a public answer.

S. 

[Ray Franck]

12 hours ago, Gearhead_42 said:

Who's the holder of the 2019 VPI as of now? I've gotten 2nd hand reports that a car not yet on the list was assigned a value earlier this year, but never made it to the official list. I can email, just not sure if that a @chisek item or something the new tech director (or advisory board?) is managing.

 

Yes, I'm trying to get a jump on next year's build plans

  Dont jump just yet . We revewed and amended rules first ,and the TAC is lookin and tuning them in further as we speek . 

   VIP is headed their way soon but no one holds the 2019 values now  , still workin on them .  Any sugestions or recomendations speek up now ,or send them in to the tech line now . You can always email Mike but even he cant answer this quite yet . 

[Team Infiniti]

1 hour ago, Ray Franck said:

  Dont jump just yet . We revewed and amended rules first ,and the TAC is lookin and tuning them in further as we speek . 

   VIP is headed their way soon but no one holds the 2019 values now  , still workin on them .  Any sugestions or recomendations speek up now ,or send them in to the tech line now . You can always email Mike but even he cant answer this quite yet . 

New build pending the next conversation w/Mike

 

I hate bothering the guy, care to give him my reminder?

[Ray Franck]

Dagg just got off the phone with him .  I'll do that next time I talk to him ,care to PM me with the jest of it as thats what I will be workin on for the next bunch of days .. and wyle at Thompson and so on 

[Gearhead_42]

18 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

Dagg just got off the phone with him .  I'll do that next time I talk to him ,care to PM me with the jest of it as thats what I will be workin on for the next bunch of days .. and wyle at Thompson and so on 

Are you all getting the "tech@" emails now?  there's an email for Jay, then the main tech@ address.  That the one to use?

[Ray Franck]

Just now, Gearhead_42 said:

Are you all getting the "tech@" emails now?  there's an email for Jay, then the main tech@ address.  That the one to use?

  Yes &Yes if you use the main address we both see it if you use Jays ,or mine its like a private message to which ever . 

[Gearhead_42]

37 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

  Yes &Yes if you use the main address we both see it if you use Jays ,or mine its like a private message to which ever . 

Just sent a few.  My apologies ;-)

[Scott]

Forwarded along a convo I had with Mike regarding an update to the table from earlier this year.

 

Thanks Guys!

[Ray Franck]

1 hour ago, Gearhead_42 said:

Just sent a few.  My apologies

  Will look over tonight and send my thoughts to Jay and Mike . We will talk  it over then all will be sent to the TAC committee then on to the board . 

  So please be patient we are working on it . I believe the end result will be an improvement . Remember the committee was just formed a short wyle ago and the decision was made to fix some things and include them in the process rather than blowin by for another year just to be on time . 

[Gearhead_42]

Thanks Ray, I'm just thrilled that we have a well defined (and responsive) channel for requests like this now.  

 

Now back to fixing my daily driver

 

Also, I'll try to meet up with you IRL at Thompson this weekend... I'm driving for Subsonic Motorsports in their Miata...

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Gearhead_42

[Grant]

I found the 2019 VPI table. When will these be finalized? I've been considering building an NC Miata, but a 500 point S2000? Yes please.

 

You guys realize what an S2000 would do to the field, right? I bet you could turn 2:28s at Sebring in a legal car in the heat of the summer, at the cost of 2 to 3 more fuel stops than a 2-hour car. The challenge would be finding good brakes which fit under the 2x rule, because factory S2000 brakes are terrible.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Grant

[Ian]

47 minutes ago, Grant said:

I found the 2019 VPI table. When will these be finalized? I've been considering building an NC Miata, but a 500 point S2000? Yes please.

 

You guys realize what an S2000 would do to the field, right? I bet you could turn 2:26s at Sebring in a legal car in the heat of the summer, at the cost of 2 to 3 more fuel stops than a 2-hour car. The challenge would be finding good brakes which fit under the 2x rule, because factory S2000 brakes are terrible.

 

Pretty sure it was Option that put the S2000 to an endurance test at Tsukuba while monitoring  engine vitals.  They discovered that the driver was force to lower the redline below 6000 rpm just to keep the oil temp from skyrocketting, and coolant temp was a problem as well.

 

Along with the glass differential, it might be a hard platform to make competitive for a full 8+ hours without some reliability mods.  Only one way to find out though.

[Chris Huggins]

1 hour ago, Grant said:

I found the 2019 VPI table. When will these be finalized? I've been considering building an NC Miata, but a 500 point S2000? Yes please.

 

You guys realize what an S2000 would do to the field, right? I bet you could turn 2:26s at Sebring in a legal car in the heat of the summer, at the cost of 2 to 3 more fuel stops than a 2-hour car. The challenge would be finding good brakes which fit under the 2x rule, because factory S2000 brakes are terrible.

The field is much faster than you realize...  there was a s2000 at the 2018 VIR 24, and at a Sebring race previously.  Go look at the lap time comparisons...

[Grant]

1 hour ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

Pretty sure it was Option that put the S2000 to an endurance test at Tsukuba while monitoring  engine vitals.  They discovered that the driver was force to lower the redline below 6000 rpm just to keep the oil temp from skyrocketting, and coolant temp was a problem as well.

 

This isn't correct. I have an NA Miata with an F22C1 in it, and oil temps stabilize about 65F over coolant temps with the factory oil cooler. Coolant temps should not be a problem with a vented hood.

I do not believe results in a ChumpCar race are necessarily indicative of a car's potential. These cars have been tracked for over a decade now, and their performance (albeit usually at heavier weights than what we'd see in ChampCar) is well established.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Grant

[Ian]

44 minutes ago, Grant said:

 

This isn't correct. I have an NA Miata with an F22C1 in it, and oil temps stabilize about 65F over coolant temps with the factory oil cooler. Coolant temps should not be a problem with a vented hood.

I do not believe results in a ChumpCar race are necessarily indicative of a car's potential. These cars have been tracked for over a decade now, and their performance (albeit usually at heavier weights than what we'd see in ChampCar) is well established.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  

 

I still dont think an S2K is the one shot kill you're making it to be.  How many endurance races has your FMiata survived, and how did it place?

 

I think an S2K could be made to compete, just not at 500 points.  That doesn't mean I don't want to see them out there.  

[ABR-Glen]

I've  seen a couple run in WRL, not earth shattering performance by any means, but they may be somewhat handicapped by the minimum weight for classing. I say bring it on.

[Grant]

SonsOfIrony, my car isn't an endurance racer. I would love to run it in the WRL, but would have to add about 400 lbs of balast or heavily restrict the motor. The engine (F22C1 with F20C cams) made 236whp and has 75 hours on it without issue. S2000s have been endurance raced in the SCCA and NASA.

 

In any case I don't believe anecdotes are helpful. The performance of these cars is well established.

 

S2000s definitely have more than their share of issues, but I believe they are all solvable without adding points.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Grant

[hotchkis23]

S2000 is going to be a car to watch for sure, but the diff will be an issue.  Just like the  NA6 Miata diff, it might last one 8hr race and then grenade during the second day, especially if you are pushing the car hard.  There was also one that ran Thompson last year finished 4th 8 laps off the leader, and had FTD by 3's over the Visceral Racing Porsche 944...

[JDChristianson]

Grassroots has a great article, I think last month, on one that has been prepped for prepared class in Autocross.   The interesting thing that would likely compare to what we are doing is weight.  Its somewhere close to 2300lbs.    Power to weight will not be a problem for them.    

[Chris Huggins]

AP2 diff is much much better.  I suppose it depends if they are allowed to swap that by whatever the new diff ruling means regarding that issue.

 

[zack_280]

1 hour ago, Grant said:

SonsOfIrony, my car isn't an endurance racer. I would love to run it in the WRL, but would have to add about 400 lbs of balast or heavily restrict the motor. The engine (F22C1 with F20C cams) made 236whp and has 75 hours on it without issue. The cars have been endurance raced in the SCCA and NASA.

Why would you have to run any ballast or restrict the motor in WRL?  There was an S2000 at NOLA a few weeks ago in GP1 with some basic modifiers and no need for ballast.  I'm guessing maybe you'd want to ballast up to GP2 for some reason?  Base PWR for your car should be ~11:1.  So with some other modifiers (shocks, diff, aero, etc) you could still run in GP1 with an ideal PWR and with no ballast.  And you could build the car to easily remove the points adders to run in Champcar with minimal (or even no) penalty laps.

[Grant]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:40 AM, zack_280 said:

Why would you have to run any ballast or restrict the motor in WRL?  There was an S2000 at NOLA a few weeks ago in GP1 with some basic modifiers and no need for ballast.  I'm guessing maybe you'd want to ballast up to GP2 for some reason?  Base PWR for your car should be ~11:1.  So with some other modifiers (shocks, diff, aero, etc) you could still run in GP1 with an ideal PWR and with no ballast.  And you could build the car to easily remove the points adders to run in Champcar with minimal (or even no) penalty laps.

 

It's a NA Miata with an F22C1 engine swapped into it. It weighs less than 1,900 lbs.

I ended up buying a 2009 NC Miata. Way cheaper, newer, better handling and less likely to get penalty laps than an AP2 S2000. I still think if you could sort an AP2 without getting over $500, that'd be the car to have. I'm not sure if that's possible though. We weren't able to figure out a rear brake solution, and have not seen anyone get the extreme twitchiness out of those cars (even AP2s, though AP1s are worse) without a rear wing.

Wow the NC is slow. It's a good thing these aren't 500 point cars anymore.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Grant

[the5]

13 hours ago, Grant said:

 

It's a NA Miata with an F22C1 engine swapped into it. It weighs less than 1,900 lbs.

I ended up buying a 2009 NC Miata. Way cheaper, newer, better handling and less likely to get penalty laps than an AP2 S2000. I still think if you could sort an AP2 without getting over $500, that'd be the car to have. I'm not sure if that's possible though. We weren't able to figure out a rear brake solution, and have not seen anyone get the extreme twitchiness out of those cars (even AP2s, though AP1s are worse) without a rear wing.

Wow the NC is slow. It's a good thing these aren't 500 point cars anymore.

 

What was the value of the AP2 as only the AP1 is listed in the VPI table?