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Aleru

The Marathon Coach Sebring 14 hour

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My first stint in the KSR 300Z was going well until a Miata decided five cars passing it going into T13 was enough.  Unfortunately for me, I was sixth in line when he swung over from the far right hand side to the left.  I had about 20mph on him coming into the braking zone, and had to take to the grass. Bounced the bottom of the car on the curbing a few times, and may or may not have lead to some damage to the left front tire.  By the end of my stint it had an awful knot on the face of the tire, making for an awful vibration in right hand corners.  The yellows helped cool the tire down enough that the tire lasted until my pit stop, but my laps went from 2:40 to 2:50.  I also got hit by the ISC Miata in the hairpin.  We were three rows of two across, and he had his rught side tires in the grass trying to pass all of us, I guess.  It felt worse than it was.  The fender easily pulled back into shape.

 

They threw some tires on the front at the stop, and it was much better,.  The vibration might have caused the brake fluid to get some air in it.  We bled the brakes after the red flag and they were good the rest of the way.

 

I got back in about a quarter to nine, and when the leading team car came up on me, I let him around, then latched on for a good thirty minutes while we cut 2:38’s through traffic.  Fun stuff following Lee during that time.  But the older tires we threw on the front were not being very compatible with the newer rears, and eventually Lee started pulling away (he started running 37’s as well as his fuel load went down).

 

Could have been better, but any day endurance racing is better than work.  And we still made 2nd in EC.  I think they said in my hour and thirty minute 2nd stint I had moved the car up 20 places.  One of these days we’re gonna get that KSR 1-2.

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On 9/24/2018 at 8:26 AM, krispykritter said:

Blowing out a CV axle at the end of the main straight.  Driver could only get grindy noises when trying to move, was scared we'd lost the clutch or trans.  Just the axle and we were back on the track:

 

 

 

Got smacked from behind and spun in turn 17.  Curious if we were in the wrong here.  Of course, we don't think so, but we're happy to get some input about what y'all think:

 

 

Way too wide and too slow on entry to swoop across the track to come down to the apex. If I were coming up on a car doing that, to me, they are broadcasting that they are leaving the inside line open and that is where I am going. Once committed, there may not be much available room for correction to avoid contact. Yes, you should always try and leave a plan out of harms way, but to me that looked like he was leaving the inside lanes (like 3 of them) open, then came all the way across track down to the most inside lane. 

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1 hour ago, CutlassRacer said:

 

Way too wide and too slow on entry to swoop across the track to come down to the apex. If I were coming up on a car doing that, to me, they are broadcasting that they are leaving the inside line open and that is where I am going. Once committed, there may not be much available room for correction to avoid contact. Yes, you should always try and leave a plan out of harms way, but to me that looked like he was leaving the inside lanes (like 3 of them) open, then came all the way across track down to the most inside lane. 

 

1 hour ago, zack_280 said:

^^^That's what I thought as well.

 

While I can't argue that it's not a wide line, I would argue that he barely tightens it all all once he turns in, which should've given the passing driver enough time to adjust.  But we'll live and learn and try to avoid making the same mistake twice.  I found a video of me making an almost identical move, but the overtaking car avoided me in that case.  I wonder how much of this is just the difference in speed (and capability) between the fastest cars and the slowest?

 

I definitely saw this guy on the straight but never saw him in the corner.

 

 

Edited by krispykritter

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27 minutes ago, krispykritter said:

 

 

While I can't argue that it's not a wide line, I would argue that he barely tightens it all all once he turns in, which should've given the passing driver enough time to adjust.  But we'll live and learn and try to avoid making the same mistake twice.  I found a video of me making an almost identical move, but the overtaking car avoided me in that case.  I wonder how much of this is just the difference in speed (and capability) between the fastest cars and the slowest?

 

I definitely saw this guy on the straight but never saw him in the corner.

 

 

I would have assumed you were staying wide if I was in this car.  From this drivers point of view it seems like you cut down on him/her, IMHO.

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6 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

I would have assumed you were staying wide if I was in this car.  From this drivers point of view it seems like you cut down on him/her, IMHO.

 

I agree, from their car it definitely looks that way.  I'll have to see if I can find the video from our car - we try pretty hard to drive courteously, especially because we get passed A LOT.  I know from my point of view, I never felt like we went that wide in the corner, but it looks pretty wide from that car.

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5 minutes ago, krispykritter said:

 

I agree, from their car it definitely looks that way.  I'll have to see if I can find the video from our car - we try pretty hard to drive courteously, especially because we get passed A LOT.  I know from my point of view, I never felt like we went that wide in the corner, but it looks pretty wide from that car.

You made the comment above that you saw them in the straight but not in the corner, if that was the case where did you think they had gone?  Not trying to be a jerk, I've been in the same position of losing track of a car and having an "oh crap" moment.  It's different too if that is your "normal" line and teams have seen you do it before and expect it to happen.  Now that we are one of the faster cars I find myself memorizing certain cars "normal" lines so I hopefully don't get caught and cause an incident.

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9 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

You made the comment above that you saw them in the straight but not in the corner, if that was the case where did you think they had gone?  Not trying to be a jerk, I've been in the same position of losing track of a car and having an "oh crap" moment.  It's different too if that is your "normal" line and teams have seen you do it before and expect it to happen.  Now that we are one of the faster cars I find myself memorizing certain cars "normal" lines so I hopefully don't get caught and cause an incident.

Oh sure, I saw them on the straight, then concentrated on getting the corner 'right' and didn't remember that they had been back there somewhere.  I probably should have but clearly didn't - just glad it didn't result in me/them/us taking each other out ...well done to that driver.

 

I don't recall, but I'd guess I saw them and figured they were too far back to worry about mid-corner.  In hindsight, a shitty assumption.

Edited by krispykritter
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well, i have to say, this is one of the funnest stints i have had so far. yeah, he tightened up on me faster than i thought he would, but its all good.  

 

Edited by ad3adman
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The main thing to remember is to be predictable. That line through 17 is anything but that. By entering the corner 2-3 lanes outside of "normal", it looks like you are saying "this is my line, I am entering wide and this is where I will stay so faster cars can have all of the open track under me", but it sounds like you think that sweeping across 3 lanes is normal and OK. In my opinion, it is not. Sure if you are at a private track rental and want to try out new lines, go for it, but when on track with 80+ other cars with wide ranges in speed and skill, pick a lane and stay in it. I would MUCH rather have a car be racing on the correct line and for me to figure out how to get around them than for them to be swapping lanes mid corner, especially if they are of the mindset that other cars should avoid them as they take whatever line they want. Just my opinion. 

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14 minutes ago, CutlassRacer said:

The main thing to remember is to be predictable. That line through 17 is anything but that. By entering the corner 2-3 lanes outside of "normal", it looks like you are saying "this is my line, I am entering wide and this is where I will stay so faster cars can have all of the open track under me", but it sounds like you think that sweeping across 3 lanes is normal and OK. In my opinion, it is not. Sure if you are at a private track rental and want to try out new lines, go for it, but when on track with 80+ other cars with wide ranges in speed and skill, pick a lane and stay in it. I would MUCH rather have a car be racing on the correct line and for me to figure out how to get around them than for them to be swapping lanes mid corner, especially if they are of the mindset that other cars should avoid them as they take whatever line they want. Just my opinion. 

 

I feel like you're making some bad assumptions there, but I've learned not to argue with you when I disagree on something.

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I am just telling you my perspective, for you to add into your thought process about the situation. I can assure you that when I am driving, I try to consider every single thing that another car may do so that I can plan for avoidance, but that line starting out way wide and cutting in for the grass mid corner is pretty far outside of "normal", even if that is that you were doing all day. The entry to 17 should never be that wide as it can be misleading for faster cars coming up on you, again, just my opinion.

 

BTW, I see where my last line in that quote may seem a little harsh, but that is the impression that I got from you saying things like "but he barely changes once he has turned in", or "I took that line and the other cars avoided me fine", etc. I am sorry if that is the wrong impression, but I took your statements as meaning that you are ok with sweeping across the track like that, which I feel is not a good way to race.

Edited by CutlassRacer

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2 hours ago, ad3adman said:

 

well, i have to say, this is one of the funnest stints i have had so far. yeah, he tightened up on me faster than i thought he would, but its all good.  

 

 

All the worrying about the contour, when everyone should be worrying about that Accord.  Did they not have mirrors?  Were they wearing blinders, and running limo tinted windows?

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10 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

All the worrying about the contour, when everyone should be worrying about that Accord.  Did they not have mirrors?  Were they wearing blinders, and running limo tinted windows?

I know right I was all over him and he just didn't seem to notice

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In Today's episode of "Our driver bears responsibility for passing and putting the car there but...."


Maybe we should invest in a horn. Or a spotlight. Maybe a high pressure water gun. Maybe a broomstick for when drivers are within brooming distance. As an aside, we were having some serious brake issues, so our ability to pass under the brakes was limited. Our driver thought, incorrectly, the line was being ceded as he was jamming every mirror and side window full of car for several corners. 

Edited by vtjballeng
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4 minutes ago, vtjballeng said:

In Today's episode of "Our driver bears responsibility for passing and putting the car there but...."


Maybe we should invest in a horn. Or a spotlight. Maybe a high pressure water gun. As an aside, we were having some serious brake issues, so our ability to pass under the brakes was limited.

 

Id say the cars were "at least" level when the BMW darted over.  Just another driver with poor situational awareness, someone wasn't paying enough attention, because your car is neither invisible, nor silent.

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44 minutes ago, vtjballeng said:

In Today's episode of "Our driver bears responsibility for passing and putting the car there but...."


Maybe we should invest in a horn. Or a spotlight. Maybe a high pressure water gun. Maybe a broomstick for when drivers are within brooming distance. As an aside, we were having some serious brake issues, so our ability to pass under the brakes was limited. Our driver thought, incorrectly, the line was being ceded as he was jamming every mirror and side window full of car for several corners. 

 

 

Very nearly what happened to me at that same corner.  Luckily, the Miata that tried it was slightly slower in their move left there.

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The situational awareness of some of the drivers in champcar is very low. People get so focused on running "the line" they forget about everything else around them.

 

The rules might say the passing driver is the responsible one, but i think both drivers are equally responsible for making the pass safely.

 

Drivers, keep in mind what your car is communicating to the driver behind you.

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1 hour ago, vtjballeng said:

In Today's episode of "Our driver bears responsibility for passing and putting the car there but...."


Maybe we should invest in a horn. Or a spotlight. Maybe a high pressure water gun. Maybe a broomstick for when drivers are within brooming distance. As an aside, we were having some serious brake issues, so our ability to pass under the brakes was limited. Our driver thought, incorrectly, the line was being ceded as he was jamming every mirror and side window full of car for several corners. 

 

Just wow. Did the BMW guys come over and at least apologize? 

 

If that is the same EC BMW (99.999% sure), that is the same team that spun going into T15 last year, then slid back across the track, I hit him and he looked at me like I was the a-hole..... 

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On 9/24/2018 at 12:33 PM, Sully1133 said:

Yep. That’s why the 24hr of Lemon teams race the 12hr. If it can last 12 at Sebring then 24 at Lemon is fine. 

Still my favorite track 

Absolutely my favorite track. You need to hustle the car and be in shape to last a few stints:-) Car prep is key to success

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2 hours ago, pintodave said:

 

Just wow. Did the BMW guys come over and at least apologize? 

 

If that is the same EC BMW (99.999% sure), that is the same team that spun going into T15 last year, then slid back across the track, I hit him and he looked at me like I was the a-hole..... 

 

Didn't hear from them. EC #319.  They were dangerous in other drivers stint videos too. Given their situational awareness I'm not even sure they knew they had hit something.

 

Funny point about the noise, our exhaust exits on the right hand side. Our driver was sure they saw/heard/were aware our car was there. Instead, it seems it was an elaborate ruse.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, vtjballeng said:

 

Didn't hear from them. EC #319.  They were dangerous in other drivers stint videos too. Given their situational awareness I'm not even sure they knew they had hit something.

 

Funny point about the noise, our exhaust exits on the right hand side. Our driver was sure they saw/heard/were aware our car was there. Instead, it seems it was an elaborate ruse.

 

 

To be fair, at the point of contact, I'd guess you were even to slightly (12"?) ahead of the 319. Is that really enough to establish your presence? I mean, what if the a-pillar was blocking part of your car and the 319 driver couldn't see 3/4 of your nose even with or ahead of him? Maybe his HANS was too tight and he just didn't have the extra 1.5° of head movement to see an entire car out of his drivers side window. (I'll leave the loud-pipes-save-lives comments for other people to pile on...)

 

Sorry. Just me being grouchy over stupid stuff. I can't even call your move to the outside 'aggressive' given the posture of the 319 approaching tower turn - he is totally mid track to the inside of T12 then you can see him jerk the wheel left to try and get set up for T13 (what I am saying is it wasn't like he was 110% through T12 and 'ran out of track'). He was completely driving with blinders on trying to catch the black BMW. 319 is on my 'ahhh crap these guys' list. 

Edited by pintodave
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50 minutes ago, pintodave said:

 

To be fair, at the point of contact, I'd guess you were even to slightly (12"?) ahead of the 319. Is that really enough to establish your presence? I mean, what if the a-pillar was blocking part of your car and the 319 driver couldn't see 3/4 of your nose even with or ahead of him? Maybe his HANS was too tight and he just didn't have the extra 1.5° of head movement to see an entire car out of his drivers side window. (I'll leave the loud-pipes-save-lives comments for other people to pile on...)

 

Sorry. Just me being grouchy over stupid stuff. I can't even call your move to the outside 'aggressive' given the posture of the 319 approaching tower turn - he is totally mid track to the inside of T12 then you can see him jerk the wheel left to try and get set up for T13 (what I am saying is it wasn't like he was 110% through T12 and 'ran out of track'). He was completely driving with blinders on trying to catch the black BMW. 319 is on my 'ahhh crap these guys' list. 

 

Wish we had a right hand drive 240SX for shenanigans at that moment.

 

 

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6 hours ago, mbulls@commercemicro.com said:

Absolutely my favorite track. You need to hustle the car and be in shape to last a few stints:-) Car prep is key to success

We were thrilled that we survived the race without breaking an axle. That was a first 

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