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Bill Strong

2018 Pittsburgh Grand Prix

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On 10/9/2018 at 3:33 PM, trigun7469 said:

Lake Effect Racing had a positive run with a untested Ford Focus car with the champcar configuration. We had a stud problem Saturday which sent the passenger wheel flying. We were able to get back going and finish Saturday. Sunday was going well until a wheel bearing with less then 2 hours sent us home. Our Crew member won the Sportsmanship which was well deserved. There were 2 miatas that made contact with us, one of the drivers came and apologized which was much appreciated, as we luckily no major damage was caused in either. There were alot cars cutting it close on the passes but the E30 Just 4 Fun Motorsports (I think it was them) super clean driving, hats off too them. Our car needs some further development, but we hope to be on pace next year.

We got this!!

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1 hour ago, Racer28173 said:

The second contact by mustard had to be intentional (he had to know he was there). 

 

In my opinion, he should have raced it clean and left the BMW room.   That’s what I would have done.  Not just because that is what I think is right, but because my team would kick my a** for putting a dent in the door intentionally.  Guys that bring cars in with an 18 wheeler have the budget to ruin things, so I’m not completely surprised by the move.....

Team kicking ass if your an ass is as it should be.

 

That is no reflection on you, 

 

Just what I would expect from anyone I was associated with.

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50 minutes ago, Fitsbain said:

How about I feed you all at the next race I'm at, an everyone has a big hug?

Yo buddy, send me an message with your digits.  We are gonna do a few work days this winter....

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I've watched it all.  If the #9 was blocking or not, he ignored a black flag and should be DQed for that.  Personally, it looked like 9 was blocking to me.  He certainly wasn't using the curbs like someone trying to run fast would do.  That being said, Charcoal should not have taken him out.  Let the officials handle it.  Then at the very end, Mustard hit the Troxell car to keep him from getting around, twice.  Both hits looked intentional to me.  He should be BF for that intentional contact.   

So if I were running the race, I would have DQed both car from both teams.  Using your second slower car to try and win a race by blocking the second place car is not appropriate in our series in my opinion.  Nor is using your second slower car to "takeout" the competition or intentionally hitting another car to keep them from passing.  All of those things should be DQable offenses in my opinion.  If I had been on either team, I would not have been very happy with the other team.  But that does not mean you use your slow car to improve the position of your fast car.  I think F1 is the only series that makes an art out of that.

My opinion, and I am not an official or in any position of responsibility or authority in any racing series, I've just been racing a lot for the past 10 or so years.  So it is worth what you paid for it.

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1 hour ago, tdh136 said:

I've watched it all.  If the #9 was blocking or not, he ignored a black flag and should be DQed for that.  Personally, it looked like 9 was blocking to me.  He certainly wasn't using the curbs like someone trying to run fast would do.  That being said, Charcoal should not have taken him out.  Let the officials handle it.  Then at the very end, Mustard hit the Troxell car to keep him from getting around, twice.  Both hits looked intentional to me.  He should be BF for that intentional contact.   

So if I were running the race, I would have DQed both car from both teams.  Using your second slower car to try and win a race by blocking the second place car is not appropriate in our series in my opinion.  Nor is using your second slower car to "takeout" the competition or intentionally hitting another car to keep them from passing.  All of those things should be DQable offenses in my opinion.  If I had been on either team, I would not have been very happy with the other team.  But that does not mean you use your slow car to improve the position of your fast car.  I think F1 is the only series that makes an art out of that.

My opinion, and I am not an official or in any position of responsibility or authority in any racing series, I've just been racing a lot for the past 10 or so years.  So it is worth what you paid for it.

They gave him one lap to see the black flag. That is absurd. When we got a black flag at NCM, driver says on radio “hey I got a black flag” I said “ok are you absolutely sure? How about you do another lap and see if they are still flagging you before you come in”. I have never heard of a DQ for ignoring black flag after a single lap!

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4 hours ago, enginerd said:

They gave him one lap to see the black flag. That is absurd. When we got a black flag at NCM, driver says on radio “hey I got a black flag” I said “ok are you absolutely sure? How about you do another lap and see if they are still flagging you before you come in”. I have never heard of a DQ for ignoring black flag after a single lap!

This was the end of the race and he was misbehaving.  He new it was for him.  

 

Although maybe the new new thing is if you blow off the black flag,  a Black Rx7 takes care of the DQ.    😜

Edited by JDChristianson

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So, is blocking (without contact) against the rules for the leaders at the end of the race?

 

Also, rbank has used their cars not in the lead of a race to slow down competitors for years.

 

  If I had a team car, I would at least make it a bit difficult for the chasing car to pass.  Nothing dangerous, just not opening the door is enough to open up a several second gap for your other team car.

 

To be clear, I am not promoting contact or pushing people off track or anything.  I am also not in favor of 1 or the other teams in this discussion.

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Take the line you want and then stay on it. Go to the inside for the turn and stay there.  Or take the outside line and hold that.  But don’t move from one line to another after a car is beside you.  Running someone off of the track is just plain stupid.  So is hitting them.  Do that enough times and you will get hit and wrecked. The prize money isn’t worth it. Go to a different series if you want to drive like a d**k - the VAST majority of the people in this series can’t afford to crash a car because you are driving like a tool.  

Edited by Racer28173
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1 hour ago, Racer28173 said:

Take the line you want and then stay on it. Go to the inside for the turn and stay there.  Or take the outside line and hold that.  But don’t move from one line to another after a car is beside you.  Running someone off of the track is just plain stupid.  So is hitting them.  Do that enough times and you will get hit and wrecked. The prize money isn’t worth it. Go to a different series if you want to drive like a d**k - the VAST majority of the people in this series can’t afford to crash a car because you are driving like a tool.  

Who are you direct this at?

 

If me, then I think you need to re read what I wrote.  I specifically made contact and pushing a competitor off track a no no.

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11 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Who are you direct this at?

 

If me, then I think you need to re read what I wrote.  I specifically made contact and pushing a competitor off track a no no.

I didn’t quote you.  It was a generic statement on the topic.   I guess you could say it was directed at Mustard, since the video in this thread features them doing sketchy things, but they don’t have a monopoly on this type of driving.  

Edited by Racer28173
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Oh my, oh my.... the web we weave....   this is "real" racing boys, don't forget that.... it is what ya'll have wanted and petitioned for over the years....

 

 

I haven't heard a single word about the third place car..... who were they and how do they feel about the results of this race?

 

I have no doubt that shenanigans were being perpetrated at the end of this race..... I personally experienced something new to me whilst running on Saturday.   I was dive bombed and "juked" by three different cars at different times while passing me on my left.... "real racers" obviously.

 

I'm not complaining, I thought it was a clean race but I have no sympathy for any of the top finishers because as an also-ran I know exactly what those teams at the pointy end are doing to stay there...  and some of it is sketchy.

 

Gone are the days when getting passed by the highly skilled was seamless. 

 

Keep your wits ...  stay out of the way when you see it coming.

 

 

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  When I race, I like rules to be enforced fairly and uniformly.  I recognize that not everyone's definition of "fair'" is the same, so as long as rules are applied uniformly, I'm happy.   I don't think the rules were applied fairly or uniformly here.  

 

  On the Troxell/Sahlens incident, I didn't see 09 block or initiate any contact - he was just driving his line and Mustard couldn't get around.  We've all been there.  But on the in-car from #325 posted by Jay T, Mustard came over and contacted #325.  Not once, but twice.  The two cars were not quite door-to-door, but 325 had enough racing room for a clean pass - until he didn't because Mustard closed the door on him - and since Mustard did it twice, it arguably was an intentional move to block #325 and make the track narrower for him.   The first time might -  m-i-g-h-t -  be excusable.  But there's no excuse for a second contact, yet I'm not aware that Mustard was shown a black flag for obvious, intentional, and visible contact.  But there's no uniformity where Mustard isn't penalized for an intentional hit, while #09 is black-flagged and DQ'd for simply driving his line and just being ahead of a pushy driver.  Then Charcoal comes up and nerfs 09 off the track - what was that all about?  Was that a team order to punish 09?   And why no sanction against Charcoal for that?

 

Is it possible for Champcar to be more uniform on what is and is not intentional contact, and how penalties are applied?  We'd all probably appreciate it, because this won't be the last race where racing incidents occur, and prompt questions about whether and how they should be addressed and penalized.            

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^^^^^.  The challenge for Champ is that they typically have very little information to go off of “in the moment”.  Then video gets posted and it becomes very apparent that the penalties weren’t consistently applied.  So Mustard gets a trophy for doing things that were seemingly just as bad or worse than what the 09 car got DQ’d for.  

 

Given the nature of the “in the moment” versus “after the fact” disparity in information, we may need a system that allows the application of penalties post-race.  I for one would think a one-lap penalty at the next race for Mustard (and perhaps Charcoal, if someone has more definitive video of the punt) is in order.  Otherwise, with no consequences, the problems will likely get worse. 

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2 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

^^^^^.  The challenge for Champ is that they typically have very little information to go off of “in the moment”.  Then video gets posted and it becomes very apparent that the penalties weren’t consistently applied.  So Mustard gets a trophy for doing things that were seemingly just as bad or worse than what the 09 car got DQ’d for.  

 

 

Correct, my understanding has always been that the only information the tower gets is from the flag stations and its very hard to see who did what and who was at fault from the flag station. 

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1 minute ago, red0 said:

 

Correct, my understanding has always been that the only information the tower gets is from the flag stations and its very hard to see who did what and who was at fault from the flag station. 

Yes, and having worked a flag stand a few times I can tell you that it can be really tough to phone in useful information 

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Live streaming can be your friend.  If officials know you stream you might be able to defend yourselves.  We've successfuly done it in with the #626. Officials have come to out pit and asked us to replay video if our car has been radioed in for contact.  We've replayed the video and avoided the black flag while the other team was brought in for initating the contact.  They want to get it right IMO but they are working with very limited information.  If you can give them more, it can help you out.  

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2 hours ago, Snake said:

Live streaming can be your friend.  If officials know you stream you might be able to defend yourselves.

Maybe you should have live streamed your hood. 😊

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Just now, mcoppola said:

Maybe you should have live streamed your hood. 😊

We actually thought about live streaming going through tech. It's probably good for the series that we didnt. 

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1 hour ago, Snake said:

We actually thought about live streaming going through tech. It's probably good for the series that we didnt. 

Why?  Deets pleez.

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2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Why?  Deets pleez.

 

Probably doesn't concern anyone as it may have specifically been targeting a certain car of a certain make of a certain model... maybe a Mustang.

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1 minute ago, Ron_e said:

 

Probably doesn't concern anyone as it may have specifically been targeting a certain car of a certain make of a certain model... maybe a Mustang.

Naw, nobody races a mustang!  Green font.

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Whatever a Lay Shaft is, ours no longer has tooths..... apparently, they poured out with the fluid today....

 

checkbook racer, I make no apologies...

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