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wvumtnbkr

What fuel pump?

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So, I have the stock in tank fuel pump being used as a lift pump to go to a surge tank.  There is then a generic E2000 pump that feeds the engine.

 

After a few years of racing this thing, it appears my in tank pump may be dying.  

 

I know that the in tank pump gets starved of fuel multiple times every race.  Is there a decent in tank type fuel pump that will handle this situation better than a stock type pump?  The "lift" pump pushes VERY minimal pressure.  The surge tank returns to the main fuel tank.

 

Should I just throw a walbro 255 in the tank and have a spare on hand?

 

 

For the Engine feeding pump, is there something more reliable than just getting another E2000 type pump? 

 

Thanks!

 

Rob R. 

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Not to hijack your thread, but I'm interested in the answer to this as well.  I'm building an E46 with an in-tank lift pump.  The Radium Engineering kits use the stock pump in the tank, but I wasn't sure if I should try to retrofit a pump designed for 'low pressure' duty instead of repurposing the stock pump as a lift pump...Or replacing the in-tank with a wailbro, etc.

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I would recommend replacing your stock internal fuel pump with a fuel line then converting to an external low pressure lift pump.

 

I've run my Carter pump dry many times with no issues, and if I do have issues I can replace the pump at the track in about 5 minutes and without dropping the fuel tank.

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Could you be so kind as to point me to a specific model of pump or link to show me what exact pump you are referring to?

 

Like this?

https://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4389/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710849656&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=47430200350&CATCI=aud-300525381059:pla-324540257720&CATARGETID=230006180040340643&cadevice=c&jegspromo=thirdparty&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjcTN-sP83QIVgsDICh2YCwGXEAQYASABEgJp9vD_BwE

 

I have only ever played with in tank high pressure pumps.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Also, any suggestions on the inline high pressure pump?

Edited by wvumtnbkr

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53 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Could you be so kind as to point me to a specific model of pump or link to show me what exact pump you are referring to?

 

Like this?

https://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4389/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710849656&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=47430200350&CATCI=aud-300525381059:pla-324540257720&CATARGETID=230006180040340643&cadevice=c&jegspromo=thirdparty&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjcTN-sP83QIVgsDICh2YCwGXEAQYASABEgJp9vD_BwE

 

I have only ever played with in tank high pressure pumps.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Also, any suggestions on the inline high pressure pump?

I think that's what I posted a link to last time we talked about this in a thread. :)

 

I used my stock inline high pressure pump inside my surge tank but there are a number of universal pumps that would work. Just make sure it has the right gph at your required delivery pressure (not free flow), usually on a graph in the pump specs.

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huh, I dont remember that conversation.  

 

Apparently, I didnt listen because I have this issue now!

 

Thanks for your patience!

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Well crap, just when I thought I had the right approach to the fuel system along comes another smart modification. the external lift pump thing is super smart. I was going with OEM in tank lift pumps on the e30, but those carters look like the right way. I could easily tack two of those in the trunk next to the surge tank.......hmmm.....(updates the to-do list....)

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+1 on the Carter pump, they've been great on the Mini's. Do make sure to zip tie/electrical tape the bottom connectors though, they push on but don't have a locking connector. We've had one come off before....

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4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

huh, I dont remember that conversation.  

 

Apparently, I didnt listen because I have this issue now!

 

Thanks for your patience!

My mistake, it was mcoppola that posted the link in this thread:

And I meant that it was in another thread, not that you and I specifically discussed it. Sorry for the confusion! :)

Edited by mender

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6 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Could you be so kind as to point me to a specific model of pump or link to show me what exact pump you are referring to?

 

Like this?

https://www.jegs.com/i/Carter/180/P4389/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710849656&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=47430200350&CATCI=aud-300525381059:pla-324540257720&CATARGETID=230006180040340643&cadevice=c&jegspromo=thirdparty&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjcTN-sP83QIVgsDICh2YCwGXEAQYASABEgJp9vD_BwE

 

I have only ever played with in tank high pressure pumps.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Also, any suggestions on the inline high pressure pump?

Rob, @wvumtnbkr

The Carter you linked to is a marine pump. It might be 24v.

Part number P4594 is the Carter pump that mender previously sent me the part number for, and it's what I use.

(This is at least the 3rd or 4th time I (we) have recommended this pump on these forums - lol) 

It's the sister pump to your link, in 12v.

Same gph, etc. And do take wittenaeur's advice about zip tying the connectors on. They go on pretty tight, but it's cheap insurance. 

 

Edit: LOL< I was just going to post those same pictures and the link, but my buddy @mender beat me to it.... Check out the pics and you might see the big zip tie.

Edited by mcoppola
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4 hours ago, Wittenauer Racing said:

+1 on the Carter pump, they've been great on the Mini's. Do make sure to zip tie/electrical tape the bottom connectors though, they push on but don't have a locking connector. We've had one come off before....

I think I added a little bit of crimp on my connectors, no issues so far but good point!

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Just now, mcoppola said:

Rob, @wvumtnbkr

The Carter you linked to is a marine pump. It might be 24v.

Part number P4594 is the Carter pump that mender previously sent me the part number for, and it's what I use.

(This is at least the 3rd or 4th time I (we) have recommended this pump on these forums - lol)

We should be getting a commission! :)

  • Haha 2

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1 minute ago, mender said:

We should be getting a commission! :)

I'll be sure to put these on my website when I get it up and running.

Along with teh Focus hubs.

Signed,

the hub guru

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7 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

I'll be sure to put these on my website when I get it up and running.

Along with teh Focus hubs.

Signed,

the hub guru

One of the foci at pitt race could use your help I think.  Lost a wheel on the front straight!

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15 hours ago, atxe30 said:

Well crap, just when I thought I had the right approach to the fuel system along comes another smart modification. the external lift pump thing is super smart. I was going with OEM in tank lift pumps on the e30, but those carters look like the right way. I could easily tack two of those in the trunk next to the surge tank.......hmmm.....(updates the to-do list....)

We've had good luck on the E30 with the OEM pumps.  The in-tank pump is low pressure and feeds the external HP pump, so you only need to add a surge tank and optional second in-tank pump and you're good-to-go.  I was actually thinking about adapting them to fit in the E46 housing.  But I really don't want to buy two more fuel pumps if I can just buy one more stock E46 pump.  

 

I used the carter pump on my 240Z and didn't have issues with it (but I've had a lot of unrelated fuel issues).  For the E46 it's pretty easy to replace the in-tank pumps, so I want to stick with that basic design.

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11 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

One of the foci at pitt race could use your help I think.  Lost a wheel on the front straight!

 

I think it was @trigun7469

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I have heard good things about the Carter above, as another option, I have had good luck with this one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000DN7VLK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&amp;psc=1

 

I run it dry all the time and it doesn't seem to mind (can't say the same for the downline Walbro that failed in ~100 hours of use, with only a few supply hiccups when the surge was going dry).

 

YMMV

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8 hours ago, zack_280 said:

We've had good luck on the E30 with the OEM pumps.  The in-tank pump is low pressure and feeds the external HP pump, so you only need to add a surge tank and optional second in-tank pump and you're good-to-go.

Is that the ‘87 and older design? The ‘88 e30 has a single in-tank high pressure pump which has proven to be quite reliable for me even when run dry (or nearly dry) every stint. 

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I have the OEM 16.6 tank. So, throw low pressure pumps in on both sides and send both to a surge tank in the trunk that has the HP pump. Fuel rail return into the surge tank, surge tank overflow into the oem fuel tank return.

 

And yeah, i could leave that as is, but, i've already modded the oem in-tank pumps with -AN fittings to flow to the surge tank via aeroquip lines, so prob easier (and way, way cheaper) to just mod the oem pumps to be pick-ups, grab a couple of those carter pumps and tack them onto the mounting plate i welded into trunk for surge tank.

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For what its worth, I've been working closely with Deatsch Works on some issues I was having and now have 2 of their 250s (equivalent to Walbro 255 in flow) inline (switchable). They have a no-s*** 3 years warranty no matter what happens. They also did some custom pump testing to help me solve some other problems. Definitely a company worth looking into.

 

Personally I'd go Hyrdamat and external pump only on your setup unless you really need the extra volume in the surge tank. 

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As on the other thread I highly recommend the Carter as a lift pump. You could even run it inside the tank if you really wanted to.

 

This is what I run for a high pressure pump, it is really nice and the price was right for me... What you have is 2 pumps inside a single housing, if one fails you can switch over to the other pump and keep going. This system is not completely foolproof, when we were running the 24hr with a cracked Rotary header and overheating everything in the car I managed to have the actual switch that changed between the 2 pumps fail…

 

IMG_20151128_181123.thumb.jpg.5c3b4b6412bd3ef2a57e7e15a3ace765.jpg

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39 minutes ago, mhr650 said:

As on the other thread I highly recommend the Carter as a lift pump. You could even run it inside the tank if you really wanted to.

 

This is what I run for a high pressure pump, it is really nice and the price was right for me... What you have is 2 pumps inside a single housing, if one fails you can switch over to the other pump and keep going. This system is not completely foolproof, when we were running the 24hr with a cracked Rotary header and overheating everything in the car I managed to have the actual switch that changed between the 2 pumps fail…

 

IMG_20151128_181123.thumb.jpg.5c3b4b6412bd3ef2a57e7e15a3ace765.jpg

Thats an awesome looking pump and deal even if you only save on the cost of AN fittings, nice find! What kind of switch were you using?

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6 hours ago, IPF Racing said:

For what its worth, I've been working closely with Deatsch Works on some issues I was having and now have 2 of their 250s (equivalent to Walbro 255 in flow) inline (switchable). They have a no-s*** 3 years warranty no matter what happens. They also did some custom pump testing to help me solve some other problems. Definitely a company worth looking into.

 

Personally I'd go Hyrdamat and external pump only on your setup unless you really need the extra volume in the surge tank. 

One advantage of a surge tank is that you can set it up to give you an early warning before you run out of fuel.

 

Mine has a level sensor that tells me when the surge tank goes below about the 3/4 mark, allowing me about a two lap window to call in and make sure the pit crew is ready to go.

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We are running a Facet low pressure lift pump to our surge tank and using a Bosch 044 to feed the engine. Haven’t had any fuel issues with that set up.

(for those that don’t know we both run the same engine)

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Can the Carter pump sit above the fuel tank and pull easily, or is it necessary to have it at tank level or lower? (Planning a build where the pick ups will frequently run dry momentarily).

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