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wvumtnbkr

What fuel pump?

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1 hour ago, Kentite said:

We are running a Facet low pressure lift pump to our surge tank and using a Bosch 044 to feed the engine. Haven’t had any fuel issues with that set up.

(for those that don’t know we both run the same engine)

I have used Facets as well. Very reliable.
Can they be mounted above the fuel tank and run dry lots? I have always run them at or below the fuel level but want to relocate them above the tank and want to pull from above.

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19 minutes ago, rod rammage said:

I have used Facets as well. Very reliable.
Can they be mounted above the fuel tank and run dry lots? I have always run them at or below the fuel level but want to relocate them above the tank and want to pull from above.

Ours is above the tank. Rated for 60” dry lift.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9807

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46 minutes ago, rod rammage said:

Can the Carter pump sit above the fuel tank and pull easily, or is it necessary to have it at tank level or lower? (Planning a build where the pick ups will frequently run dry momentarily).

The carter pump instructions say it will left 24"

60" is awesome. 

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1 hour ago, rod rammage said:

Can the Carter pump sit above the fuel tank and pull easily, or is it necessary to have it at tank level or lower? (Planning a build where the pick ups will frequently run dry momentarily).

My fuel cell is as low as it can go and my Carter fuel pump is mounted just below the hood line. No problems with lift or running dry.

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34 minutes ago, mender said:

My fuel cell is as low as it can go and my Carter fuel pump is mounted just below the hood line. No problems with lift or running dry.

How much linear height distance is this?  

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12 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

How much linear height distance is this?  

As a guess, 20-22" to the bottom of the cell.

Edited by mender

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I run the stock pump as a lift pump to feed the surge tank and feed the rail with a Bosch.  I had a failure on a Walbro at Daytona this year, it had worked a year maybe a little more, probably half a dozen races and some DE's.  I have been hearing Walbros have issues with heat, the off road racing guys say they have abandoned using Walbro because of that and go with Bosch or whatever the expensive one that starts with A?  Sorry memory fails me as I type this.  I lost the stock pump at NCM this year which took us out of the race on Sunday because it was just too damn hot to get in the back of a race car in 96 degree heat and get back out to finish in 20 something place.  I think that pump was the original Denso that Lexus (Toyota) put in the car from 1992.  I put a cheap ass pump back in to get it running a few weeks after the race, so probably something I should revisit.

 

I use a 10 psi cracking pressure check valve in the line feeding the surge tank from the main tank and put a pressure sender in front of it.  You can monitor the gauge in the panel when the main tank is getting dry by watching this feed pressure, gives a lap or two warning.

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13 hours ago, mender said:

My fuel cell is as low as it can go and my Carter fuel pump is mounted just below the hood line. No problems with lift or running dry.

 

What do you mean there's no problem with running dry? The damn thing always empties your fuel cell before the end of your stint!#$#@:rolleyes:

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Just now, thomasp said:

 

What do you mean there's no problem with running dry? The damn thing always empties your fuel cell before the end of your stint!#$#@:rolleyes:

 

Sounds like y'all need more fuel capacity!  (Pot stir)

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4 minutes ago, thomasp said:

 

What do you mean there's no problem with running dry? The damn thing always empties your fuel cell before the end of your stint!#$#@:rolleyes:

Yup, sucks the life fuel right out of it every stint! :)

 

Probably runs dry for about 2-3 minutes every stint, so 3% of total run time is dry.

Edited by mender
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On 10/13/2018 at 3:01 PM, Burningham said:

 

 

I use a 10 psi cracking pressure check valve in the line feeding the surge tank from the main tank and put a pressure sender in front of it.  You can monitor the gauge in the panel when the main tank is getting dry by watching this feed pressure, gives a lap or two warning.

 

Not sure i understand, is it normally over 10psi between surge tank and Main tank? 

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On 10/12/2018 at 9:33 PM, mender said:

One advantage of a surge tank is that you can set it up to give you an early warning before you run out of fuel.

 

Mine has a level sensor that tells me when the surge tank goes below about the 3/4 mark, allowing me about a two lap window to call in and make sure the pit crew is ready to go.

 

Where did you find a surgetank with level sender? Its very clever.

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1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

 

Not sure i understand, is it normally over 10psi between surge tank and Main tank? 

 

No its not. Thats why you put the valve in the line before the surge tank, you create the more than 10 psi back pressure (actually runs about 15-17) with the ball check valve so that you have indication that fuel is feeding from the main tank. When there is no more fuel in the main tank the pressure drops on the feed and you know all you have left is what is in the surge tank. 

Edited by Burningham
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3 hours ago, Burningham said:

 

No its not. Thats why you put the valve in the line before the surge tank, you create the more than 10 psi back pressure (actually runs about 15-17) with the ball check valve so that you have indication that fuel is feeding from the main tank. When there is no more fuel in the main tank the pressure drops on the feed and you know all you have left is what is in the surge tank. 

 

aha that makes sense. Thanks

 

Curious if it would be possible in a practical way to measure the pumps current and detect a drop in pressure. 

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1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

 

aha that makes sense. Thanks

 

Curious if it would be possible in a practical way to measure the pumps current and detect a drop in pressure. 

 

Sounds good in theory but not sure what output you could realistically employ to do it. 

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

aha that makes sense. Thanks

 

Curious if it would be possible in a practical way to measure the pumps current and detect a drop in pressure. 

Through testing our pumps run pretty close current draw even when cavitating so I'm not sure how well that would work. Could test it with a multimeter pretty quick though. 

 

I'm extremely interested in the fuel level on the surge tank though, that's impressively clever. I've been trying to find a way to add a level sender or just a warning light for our fuel cell without having to mount something on the bulkhead, now that I've gotten rid of the surge tank, I'm not sure how that would work.....

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7 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

Where did you find a surgetank with level sender? Its very clever.

 

1 hour ago, IPF Racing said:

Through testing our pumps run pretty close current draw even when cavitating so I'm not sure how well that would work. Could test it with a multimeter pretty quick though. 

 

I'm extremely interested in the fuel level on the surge tank though, that's impressively clever. I've been trying to find a way to add a level sender or just a warning light for our fuel cell without having to mount something on the bulkhead, now that I've gotten rid of the surge tank, I'm not sure how that would work.....

I used a GM fuel tank cartridge and built a surge tank of the appropriate size around it. I used the stock fuel sender as the internal switch by moving the resistive wires away from the full side and grouping them together. When the float drops to about the 80% mark, contact is made and that is used to switch a relay that operates a large yellow shift light.

image.png.3f568d9aeb18e2324f66c5ee42c0e23d.png

 

It's not perfect: the level moves enough that during right turns the light comes on briefly, so I tell my drivers to pit once the light stays on for a complete straighaway, indicating the lift pump couldn't bring the level back up.

 

Works well and only had one close call when my driver decided to test my 2-lap reserve warning. The car quit as he rolled up to get the timer but refired and drove to our pit.

Edited by mender

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