eddyfb Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Hello! My brother and I are looking into building a ChampCar over the winter. We have been doing HPDEs in E46s we built for the track. We want to get into wheel to wheel racing. Being 19 and broke led me/us to ChampCar. The citrus based racing league seems too silly/unprofessional/ridiculous for us. I have read through the rule book a few times as well as some lengthy threads and was hoping I could get some clarification on a few things. My initial impression was that all vehicles have a minimum weight of 10% of their original advertised curb weight. But then I think I read several posts conflicting with that. Is there a minimum weight or not? Can the .5 gallon surge tank be run in addition to a +2 gallon fuel cell? Or is it a pick one of the two kind of thing? I saw there was multiple proposals to allow 2 gallon surge tanks with an OEM tank, which is what I was initially thinking of doing, but they were turned down. Is this is to incentivize the additional safety of a fuel cell? "power steering components 0 points" Does that mean we can run a solid steering guibo/coupler and a larger steering fluid cooler for 0 points? We were initially planning on doing an E46 323 as we have all specialty tools for the platform and know what works well. These are questions that apply to the e46 and it's safety problems. Does repairing the subframe mounting points really cost points?! I saw someone on E46fanatics being charged 10 points for it. And I also saw E36 people here saying reinforcing their trailing arm mounts costs points. That seems totally ridiculous for something that could be a major safety concern. Would adding reinforcements after fixing a mushroomed front/rear strut tower cost points? (to prevent this: http://www.efwperformance.com/strut/images/IMG_2012.JPG or this http://www.caragay.net/rstdamage1.jpg ) Based on the 2019 rule book are we now allowed to swap from a manual diff (2.93) to one from a manual wagon/convertible or any automatic car (3.46) for free? After seeing the updated VPI listings we are now strongly considering running a Z3, but that brings up a few more problems/questions. Similar to the E36, and E46 the Z3 has major strength issues with subframe mounting points (wtf were the engineers thinking). The diff mount and the entire crossmember the rear subframe is attached by spot welds placed ~every 2 inches. We just found well over half of the rear end has torn out of my moms Z3. Is repairing/reinforcing that also going to add points like that member on E46fanatics was charged? My brother and I have both cracked rotors on our E46s. The Z3 uses non vented rear brakes which kind of scares us. I assume based on the 2x rule we are allowed to swap to an E46 vented rear brake setup? A hardtop for a Z3 is very costly ($2000+). And even then I'm guessing there will be fitment issues with the roll cage. Would manufacturing our own top cost us points based on the amount of material used? My brother is 6'5" and our friend who might join us as well as myself are 6'0", a seat slider seems like it will be a necessity. If we use an FIA rated seat on a slider can we run without a back brace? I'm not sure how a back brace will work with a slider in such a tight space (maybe miata people would know?). The Z3 has an electrical fan mounted on the front of the radiator which seems to me like during typical track conditions would just hinder airflow. Would switching to an aftermarket electric fan that mounts on the back to run during red flags or pit time cost points? It looks like from what I can see people are only charged for electric fans when their car didnt come with one. Also a tip to anyone looking for seats. I got Bimarco seats for my E46, if you order straight from their website ( bimarco.eu ) you save over $100 per seat even with the pricey shipping from poland! I got a Grip (their FIA semi containment seat) plus a Cobra II seat for $600 shipped! Thanks, I hope to be racing with you all! (I think that's all my questions, sorry for any errors. I've been up all night reading/researching/thinking for this) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) Welcome, I can answer a couple of the basic questions not related to model. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: My initial impression was that all vehicles have a minimum weight of 10% of their original advertised curb weight. But then I think I read several posts conflicting with that. Is there a minimum weight or not? There is no minimum weight, the 10% you are reading about only applies to engine swaps, is a assumed *as raced weight* for your purposes, ignore. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: Can the .5 gallon surge tank be run in addition to a +2 gallon fuel cell? Or is it a pick one of the two kind of thing? Regardless of what kind of fuel system chosen, you may utilize the .5 gallon surge tank, saying that, if budget is a concern, the stock tank is a viable option. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: I saw there was multiple proposals to allow 2 gallon surge tanks with an OEM tank, which is what I was initially thinking of doing, but they were turned down. Is this is to incentivize the additional safety of a fuel cell? Not incentive, just not agreed upon, for the foreseeable future, please discount whatever thoughts you have on the matter of 2 gal surge. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: "power steering components 0 points" Does that mean we can run a solid steering guibo/coupler and a larger steering fluid cooler for 0 points? Getting a little grey, your coupler will get no scrutiny, the size of your p/s cooler may or may not get questioned, this may not be a area you need to enhance, there is no rampant power steering overheating issues that I aware of. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: Based on the 2019 rule book are we now allowed to swap from a manual diff (2.93) to one from a manual wagon/convertible or any automatic car (3.46) for free? Not 100% sure but it looks like you read that correctly. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: My brother and I have both cracked rotors on our E46s. The Z3 uses non vented rear brakes which kind of scares us. I assume based on the 2x rule we are allowed to swap to an E46 vented rear brake setup? Yup 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: If we use an FIA rated seat on a slider can we run without a back brace? I'm not sure how a back brace will work with a slider in such a tight space There is a spec on this, I believe the seat back has to be no farther then 3in from the bar to forgo a brace. Many ways to skin a cat here, someone will chime in. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: The Z3 has an electrical fan mounted on the front of the radiator which seems to me like during typical track conditions would just hinder airflow. Would switching to an aftermarket electric fan that mounts on the back to run during red flags or pit time cost points? It looks like from what I can see people are only charged for electric fans when their car didnt come with one. The fan will likely be fine where it is, if you feel compelled to make a change it will get little to no notice but you are getting ahead of yourself, one would be surprised at the things that do and don't work out on track, give it a shot before modding. 1 hour ago, eddyfb said: Also a tip to anyone looking for seats. I got Bimarco seats for my E46, if you order straight from their website ( bimarco.eu ) you save over $100 per seat even with the pricey shipping from poland! I got a Grip (their FIA semi containment seat) plus a Cobra II seat for $600 shipped! Cool 19 and broke led me/us to ChampCar... While this may be the cheapest/best bang for the buck, ANY racing is expensive, entry fees, fuel for car/truck/food/hotel etc. Once equipped with a prepped car, new tires, brakes, fuel jugs, pop up pit tent etc, expect your race expenses to be, no less then $2500-3000 per event... Do you already have transponder/helmet/suit and such? Transponder, rent one the first race, if you get hooked, go buy a used, old style, non subscription, preferably car powered unit, they are almost as much $$ as new but no reoccurring fees and are holding good resale value. Suit, used high quality nascar suits are a steal @ race image.com, pay attn to SFI ratings and number of pieces (1,2,3,if you have preference) Helmet, no real recommendations, Zamp seems to be the cheapest that meets spec. make sure to get one rated SA (nomex liner) Shoes/gloves, Look around, Speedway.com has a garage sale section! Attend a race, volunteer with staff, volunteer to help a team (we have mentored a few) stick around for the brief after race awards ceremony, there are typically giveaways, namely a coupon for $100 off a fire system, get the inside scoop! Good luck! Edited October 20, 2018 by Team Infiniti 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted October 20, 2018 Report Share Posted October 20, 2018 Best advice...buy a car that is done. Then you can get a feeling for the race. It doesn't have to be fast. You will spend 3-5k on the car no matter...unless you have all the parts and all the skill sets required. As mentioned a race weekend is going to be at least $2500 (including entry fees). Before you start a build come to an event, lord knows there a a bazillionn BMW teams you can question/watch. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyfb Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, Team Infiniti said: Welcome, I can answer a couple of the basic questions not related to model. There is no minimum weight, the 10% you are reading about only applies to engine swaps, is a assumed *as raced weight* for your purposes, ignore. Getting a little grey, your coupler will get no scrutiny, the size of your p/s cooler may or may not get questioned, this may not be a area you need to enhance, there is no rampant power steering overheating issues that I aware of. 19 and broke led me/us to ChampCar... While this may be the cheapest/best bang for the buck, ANY racing is expensive, entry fees, fuel for car/truck/food/hotel etc. Once equipped with a prepped car, new tires, brakes, fuel jugs, pop up pit tent etc, expect your race expenses to be, no less then $2500-3000 per event... Do you already have transponder/helmet/suit and such? Transponder, rent one the first race, if you get hooked, go buy a used, old style, non subscription, preferably car powered unit, they are almost as much $$ as new but no reoccurring fees and are holding good resale value. Suit, used high quality nascar suits are a steal @ race image.com, pay attn to SFI ratings and number of pieces (1,2,3,if you have preference) Helmet, no real recommendations, Zamp seems to be the cheapest that meets spec. make sure to get one rated SA (nomex liner) Shoes/gloves, Look around, Speedway.com has a garage sale section! Attend a race, volunteer with staff, volunteer to help a team (we have mentored a few) stick around for the brief after race awards ceremony, there are typically giveaways, namely a coupon for $100 off a fire system, get the inside scoop! Good luck! Thank you! After reading into it I assumed that weight was only for swaps, but wanted to double check! I was kind of exaggerating about being broke. I am basically broke right now, but that's after spending the money from my winter and summer jobs on buying and completely rebuilding my 500k mile E46 and going to 9 track weekends. My brother, and his friend who would probably go into with me as a team could both probably do this themselves funding wise. Plus our dad has also shown interest in helping us out and maybe joining in. Still budget conscious, but not really super broke. Yeah, we might be able to get by without the upgraded cooler. My brother and I have just both gone through one power steering pump each, and the fluid in the stock reservoir winds up kind of frothy after a longer session and will start spewing fluid out of a vent hole it has in the top. Yeah, we all have SA2015 helmets and my brothers friend has shoes as well, but we do need the other equipment. I have actually had raceimage on my christmas list haha. Thanks for the garage sale section, I hadn't seen that before! I/we can look into volunteering, it's just a really long haul to any tracks! If they had an event at summit point I would go without thinking twice. 11 hours ago, TiredBirds said: Best advice...buy a car that is done. Then you can get a feeling for the race. It doesn't have to be fast. You will spend 3-5k on the car no matter...unless you have all the parts and all the skill sets required. As mentioned a race weekend is going to be at least $2500 (including entry fees). Before you start a build come to an event, lord knows there a a bazillionn BMW teams you can question/watch. Yeah, money wise that is the best way of going about it. Building my car has probably been the most rewarding thing I have ever done, though. We do have loads of spare parts already, access to commercial car auctions/parts, and a pretty decent fabrication shop with 2 lifts. So we can keep costs down relative to most other people. Thanks again! Edited October 21, 2018 by eddyfb removing extraneous whitespace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 13 hours ago, eddyfb said: Thank you! After reading into it I assumed that weight was only for swaps, but wanted to double check! I was kind of exaggerating about being broke. I am basically broke right now, but that's after spending the money from my winter and summer jobs on buying and completely rebuilding my 500k mile E46 and going to 9 track weekends. My brother, and his friend who would probably go into with me as a team could both probably do this themselves funding wise. Plus our dad has also shown interest in helping us out and maybe joining in. Still budget conscious, but not really super broke. Yeah, we might be able to get by without the upgraded cooler. My brother and I have just both gone through one power steering pump each, and the fluid in the stock reservoir winds up kind of frothy after a longer session and will start spewing fluid out of a vent hole it has in the top. Yeah, we all have SA2015 helmets and my brothers friend has shoes as well, but we do need the other equipment. I have actually had raceimage on my christmas list haha. Thanks for the garage sale section, I hadn't seen that before! I/we can look into volunteering, it's just a really long haul to any tracks! If they had an event at summit point I would go without thinking twice. Yeah, money wise that is the best way of going about it. Building my car has probably been the most rewarding thing I have ever done, though. We do have loads of spare parts already, access to commercial car auctions/parts, and a pretty decent fabrication shop with 2 lifts. So we can keep costs down relative to most other people. Thanks again! GM Gen II F-body's are 150 points...just saying. That is a LOT of points to work with. and you can start with a 350.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittenauer Racing Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Hello and welcome! Buying an already built car of a platform you/your team already knows tends to be a good way to go. Key words here- platform you already know. It gets pretty frustrating when it's 11pm and you don't know the tailshaft bushing in the trans isn't supposed to look like that, or that your powersteering pump isn't the original and isn't from the swap donor either... In regards to car, interior space tends to be nice. Even for our shortest driver, we wouldn't call the Stupra's interior "roomy", and getting our tallest in was quite the challenge. Going to a race is well worth your time. You'd be amazed how much logistics goes into one of these, things you'd never think of till you see another team with it. Things like an engine crane that pops into the trailer hitch receiver- So much easier than dragging a normal crane across a muddy paddock! Talk to people, ask questions, most teams are more than happy to talk and share some knowledge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyfb Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 7 hours ago, TiredBirds said: GM Gen II F-body's are 150 points...just saying. That is a LOT of points to work with. and you can start with a 350.... Yeah, my brother had mentioned that. If we can find a clean chassis itd be a great option! 6 hours ago, Wittenauer Racing said: Hello and welcome! Buying an already built car of a platform you/your team already knows tends to be a good way to go. Key words here- platform you already know. It gets pretty frustrating when it's 11pm and you don't know the tailshaft bushing in the trans isn't supposed to look like that, or that your powersteering pump isn't the original and isn't from the swap donor either... In regards to car, interior space tends to be nice. Even for our shortest driver, we wouldn't call the Stupra's interior "roomy", and getting our tallest in was quite the challenge. Going to a race is well worth your time. You'd be amazed how much logistics goes into one of these, things you'd never think of till you see another team with it. Things like an engine crane that pops into the trailer hitch receiver- So much easier than dragging a normal crane across a muddy paddock! Talk to people, ask questions, most teams are more than happy to talk and share some knowledge. Thank you! Yeah, my brother and I both know the e46 really well. I've torn down and rebuilt my 330 to/from the bare shell. My brother said there is no way he would do 2 hours in a z3. I think I will try and make it to the December VIR race if school isn't too crazy. I also do iRacing and might join the sim league if I can get my skills up to par. I also found an E24 633csi prepped for autocross with a roll cage for 3k. Other than the door bars I think the cage is within spec. I messaged the "contact us" tab to see what its VPI would be. The e28 with an M30 is 400 points, but the e23 which is nearly identical other than having 2 more doors is only 250. If its 250-300 points we might be running that. Just waiting on an email back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 BEST ADVICE: Go volunteer at a race. Seriously. My wife and I did last year, and just again this last weekend. Not only can you earn race credits, but you can work pit lane and learn a PILE of information about the series, get an idea of the race flow, and talk to teams. I can't tell you how many things became clear after working as a pit marshal. Scott 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Scott said: BEST ADVICE: Go volunteer at a race. Seriously. My wife and I did last year, and just again this last weekend. Not only can you earn race credits, but you can work pit lane and learn a PILE of information about the series, get an idea of the race flow, and talk to teams. I can't tell you how many things became clear after working as a pit marshal. Scott and learn all the cheaty stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyfb Posted October 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Scott said: BEST ADVICE: Go volunteer at a race. Seriously. My wife and I did last year, and just again this last weekend. Not only can you earn race credits, but you can work pit lane and learn a PILE of information about the series, get an idea of the race flow, and talk to teams. I can't tell you how many things became clear after working as a pit marshal. Scott Yeah, I will try and get to VIR in December for the race. It's around finals time, but hopefully school wont be too crazy. I didn't know about the race credits! Thanks. 6 hours ago, TiredBirds said: and learn all the cheaty stuff HUH? What?! People cheat?! Edited October 23, 2018 by eddyfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 12 hours ago, eddyfb said: Yeah, I will try and get to VIR in December for the race. It's around finals time, but hopefully school wont be too crazy. I didn't know about the race credits! Thanks. HUH? What?! People cheat?! Only if they get caught... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 There are several cars for sale on the forum. Might want to consider getting one finished for a reasonable price, then after some seat time and races move up to something different (aka faster, harder to drive, more expensive). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicker10u Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 There is another group of guys in Delaware/MD looking to build a team and a car (probably BMW) as well. We started with a finished car and have simply tweaked it along the way. We've finished every race we started other than our first race (rear diff). It's been so nice not chasing our tails by buying a built car. That's the best advice I can give you for your budget and sanity, buy a car that is done and/or race proven. Build the car you "want" while racing the car that you can to get the experience in the series and have a heck of a time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer28173 Posted October 26, 2018 Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) On 10/22/2018 at 8:22 PM, eddyfb said: Yeah, I will try and get to VIR in December for the race. It's around finals time, but hopefully school wont be too crazy. I didn't know about the race credits! Thanks. HUH? What?! People cheat?! Look at you! Already know about green font! You HAVE been doing your homework. Although I isually agree with the folks that suggest buying a car (very good advice for most people), you seem like the exception to that rule. I will however suggest that you go to a race BEFORE you make your car choice. Even if it costs you a plane ticket you will come out ahead money and time-wise. And ask ask people if you can sit in their cars (camp out at tech). Tall guys make car building tough. Edited October 26, 2018 by Racer28173 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyfb Posted October 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2018 8 hours ago, Quicker10u said: There is another group of guys in Delaware/MD looking to build a team and a car (probably BMW) as well. We started with a finished car and have simply tweaked it along the way. We've finished every race we started other than our first race (rear diff). It's been so nice not chasing our tails by buying a built car. That's the best advice I can give you for your budget and sanity, buy a car that is done and/or race proven. Build the car you "want" while racing the car that you can to get the experience in the series and have a heck of a time. I checked the putting people together section and didn't see them. We have also been recruiting some of the people we meet at our track day events. I've been looking around for built cars, but haven't really seen anything we'd be super familiar with or want to run yet. Close to getting that E24, but decided it probably wouldn't be worth it overall (still think it'd be pretty cool to have, but overall not worth it). 6 hours ago, Racer28173 said: Look at you! Already know about green font! You HAVE been doing your homework. Although I isually agree with the folks that suggest buying a car (very good advice for most people), you seem like the exception to that rule. I will however suggest that you go to a race BEFORE you make your car choice. Even if it costs you a plane ticket you will come out ahead money and time-wise. And ask ask people if you can sit in their cars (camp out at tech). Tall guys make car building tough. Hehe, yes! Yeah, we have all the tools to build everything (pretty decent welder, a badass tube bender and notcher), tons of E46 spare parts already, all of the M54/M52TU and E46 specialty tools (would have applied to a z3 too), cheap access to cars (less than $500 for a decent and running 323i/ci), and experience building two E46s already (one from the ground up basically). Heck, I can get the transmission out on my e46 in ~30 minutes now (Thanks to a broken pressure plate!). These are some of our "projects" so far: https://imgur.com/a/uSFGhn3 On the ls G35 my brothers friend had a decent amount of the work done at a professional shop. And yeah, like I said I'm going to try and get to VIR unless school is too crazy. There is also an AER race at summit point a week after I have my HPDE there I can almost certainly make it to. Build ideologies are probably a bit different, but still probably some good ideas to pick up on there! Yeah, the tallness of my brother kind of sucks in that way haha. I've got a bimarco grip and it fits me perfect and he can squeeze in it, but the shoulder strap slots wont really work for him. He's been trying out some seats when we are at the track. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajaracer Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/27/2018 at 12:33 AM, eddyfb said: I checked the putting people together section and didn't see them. We have also been recruiting some of the people we meet at our track day events. I've been looking around for built cars, but haven't really seen anything we'd be super familiar with or want to run yet. Close to getting that E24, but decided it probably wouldn't be worth it overall (still think it'd be pretty cool to have, but overall not worth it). Hehe, yes! Hey, I’m half of the team he’s referring to, we just picked up the car this weekend and started gutting it tonight so I haven’t posted on here before. We ended up getting a 1995 325i. We plan to be (we will be) racing at VIR in March. We both live in Middletown DE but own a shop in Bear, DE. Let me know if you’re ever up this way. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: Can the .5 gallon surge tank be run in addition to a +2 gallon fuel cell? Or is it a pick one of the two kind of thing? You should be able to go 2hrs on the stock tank with a surge tank and some re-engineering of the filler neck. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: "power steering components 0 points" Does that mean we can run a solid steering guibo/coupler and a larger steering fluid cooler for 0 points? I'm building a 330ci now. I'm planning on running no power steering. It's fine in our E30, but the rack in the E30 is slower. It was no bueno in my E36 M3, but that has much caster and more faster rack. I'm hoping we can live with no PS on the lighter/faster rack E46. I'm guessing a track like AMP would be rough, but VIR probably wouldn't be too bad. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: We were initially planning on doing an E46 323 as we have all specialty tools for the platform and know what works well. These are questions that apply to the e46 and it's safety problems. I highly recommend a 328. You have the advantage of lots of torques and no points to waste on stuff that probably won't make you go that much faster anyway. Yes aero probably helps, but passing on the straights at will makes driving around VIR with 100 other people much more enjoyable. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: Does repairing the subframe mounting points really cost points?! I saw someone on E46fanatics being charged 10 points for it. And I also saw E36 people here saying reinforcing their trailing arm mounts costs points. That seems totally ridiculous for something that could be a major safety concern. I have heard this too. I would pose the question to the TAC. You should be clear that it is literally reinforcing the mounting points for the subframe because they have a tendency to cause stress fractures at the spot welds that turn into big problems. It should be clear in you inquiry that there is no chassis stiffening advantage when this is done. If they still say it's points, then I question their technical expertise and recommend you do it anyway and don't claim it. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: Would adding reinforcements after fixing a mushroomed front/rear strut tower cost points? It should't. But you should document the repair and claim it when you go through tech. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: After seeing the updated VPI listings we are now strongly considering running a Z3, but that brings up a few more problems/questions. I don't see much advantage in using the Z3 here. E46 coupe/sedans are pretty plentiful and cheap for spares. The E46 coupe has a large door opening and space inside to mount cool shirt, cooling fan, etc. I don't think there would be much weight advantage going with the Z3 either. Ultimately it's up to you. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: My brother is 6'5" and our friend who might join us as well as myself are 6'0", a seat slider seems like it will be a necessity. If we use an FIA rated seat on a slider can we run without a back brace? I'm not sure how a back brace will work with a slider in such a tight space (maybe miata people would know?). You can probably avoid the slider by carefully mounting the seat. I'm 6'-4" and the other drivers are ~5-10 with various leg/arm/torso lengths. We have a fixed seat in the E30 and are planning on the same setup with the E46. The seating position is about right for one of the guys, but it works for everyone. Another advantage is head room. I have a long torso, so my helmet is usually almost touching the roll cage. If you use a slider, you will be giving up precious inches there. On another note, the steering wheel for the E46 is offset and if you mount the seat low, you'll have to cut a notch in the trans tunnel to get the steering wheel centered and keep the driver's helmet as far as possible from the roll bars. On 10/20/2018 at 7:10 AM, eddyfb said: Also a tip to anyone looking for seats. I got Bimarco seats for my E46, if you order straight from their website ( bimarco.eu ) you save over $100 per seat even with the pricey shipping from poland! I got a Grip (their FIA semi containment seat) plus a Cobra II seat for $600 shipped! Not sure if you are using the seat mentioned above, but check out murraymotorsports.com for some cheap seat options. I'm not a huge fan of the bimarco, but it seems to be decent. I'd prefer OMP for a cheap seat, but it's not as cheap IIRC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_e Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, zack_280 said: I have heard this too. I would pose the question to the TAC. You should be clear that it is literally reinforcing the mounting points for the subframe because they have a tendency to cause stress fractures at the spot welds that turn into big problems. It should be clear in you inquiry that there is no chassis stiffening advantage when this is done. If they still say it's points, then I question their technical expertise and recommend you do it anyway and don't claim it. Seriously? Is this another eastern ruling? We ripped out a rear control arm which is not uncommon, have reinforced the area, and claim points for it. A Mustang tax/BMW freebie? Edited October 30, 2018 by Ron_e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 I'm with you on this one. You don't get to fix a cars weakness for free. If you could, everybody would have spare points and everybody would be able to race flat out for the entire length of every race. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ron_e said: Is this another eastern ruling? 9 hours ago, zack_280 said: I would pose the question to the TAC. Yes. Suggesting sending the question to TAC = ruling. Edited October 30, 2018 by zack_280 unsure of grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: I'm with you on this one. You don't get to fix a cars weakness for free. Do you get to fix a broken car for free? A cracked subframe is fairly common on E46 street cars. If you race one and start with one that was not cracked, it is likely to crack. I would think catastrophic failure unlikely, but it has happened in a Chumpcar race in the past. It is a safety hazard and it is in no way an advantage. It simply replaces the spot welds that are prone to crack with a plate that is welded, or sometimes epoxied, in place to distribute the force from the subframe to the chassis mounting points. It doesn't add an advantage. It adds ~1 or 2 lbs of material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 OP, Assuming you submit a question to the TAC, you may also want to mention that a number of E46 chassis subframes were reinforced by the dealer as a result of a class action settlement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Lots of good advice here- I would stick to the e46 since you guys know the car inside and out- this will be a big advantage at races should something go wrong. As for welding the subframes- I would do it regardless if it points or not. If it is points- it won't be more than a few based on the amount of material that will be used. Not as familiar with the e46 and power steering- this is not needed on the e30, so we don't have it. I would suggest removing if possible. Just one more thing to break during a race. Try and make the VIR race if you can- stop bye and ask as many questions you want. And if you're nice- we'll let you sit in the car and make engine noises ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddyfb Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 12 hours ago, zack_280 said: OP, Assuming you submit a question to the TAC, you may also want to mention that a number of E46 chassis subframes were reinforced by the dealer as a result of a class action settlement. 20 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: I'm with you on this one. You don't get to fix a cars weakness for free. If you could, everybody would have spare points and everybody would be able to race flat out for the entire length of every race. 21 hours ago, Ron_e said: Seriously? Is this another eastern ruling? We ripped out a rear control arm which is not uncommon, have reinforced the area, and claim points for it. A Mustang tax/BMW freebie? When I emailed tech about the VPI for the E24 I also asked about subframe reinforcements/repairs. Jay said "No points for factory recalls or repairs - so no points for subframe reinforcements on the E46." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, eddyfb said: When I emailed tech about the VPI for the E24 I also asked about subframe reinforcements/repairs. Jay said "No points for factory recalls or repairs - so no points for subframe reinforcements on the E46." What was the value of the E24 you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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