petethepumper Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, rod rammage said: Would there be points to claim if he uses the CRV intake manifold? (Or do the intakes from the B20 not fit the B18 head that he wants to use?) wont fit 2 hours ago, ironworks said: so what about the b18 cams? would we than have to add points for b18 cams since we can't use the b20 cams? no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, karman1970 said: If you can figure out how to put Mod Motor heads on a Windsor, I think yes you also get the cam(s) free. If the cams and valvetrain are included with the honda head because they are "needed", why wouldn't that also apply to the intake manifold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod rammage Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Thanks Petethepumper. I wasn't sure if the CRV manifold could be used or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petethepumper Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said: If the cams and valvetrain are included with the honda head because they are "needed", why wouldn't that also apply to the intake manifold? good point!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Nothing requires a 100pt head swap to be OEM configuration or from a vehice on the VPI list either. I assume you could buy a "stage 3 racing head" or something from a performace parts vendor that includes porting, lighter valves, stiffer springs, bigger cams, etc. as a single part number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said: If the cams and valvetrain are included with the honda head because they are "needed", why wouldn't that also apply to the intake manifold? Because they're drawing the line somewhere? Because Frankenstein's can add up very nicely? Because the same rule applies to Chevrolets, you want those spiffy Vortech heads? Pay for the intake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, ABR-Glen said: If the cams and valvetrain are included with the honda head because they are "needed", why wouldn't that also apply to the intake manifold? A valid point I can't say I disagree with. It gets brought up from time to time and I have yet to see (though it is possible I've missed it) a clear, concise response from Tech that outlines what is included and not included depending on specific circumstances. Things like Vortec heads on a SBC or single-port vs dual port VW heads come to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Team Infiniti said: Because they're drawing the line somewhere? Because Frankenstein's can add up very nicely? Because the same rule applies to Chevrolets, you want those spiffy Vortech heads? Pay for the intake! Again, I'm only making the point in the pursuit of clarification. How would someone know that's the case just from reading the rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 It's in the rules, fixed value, tech guys are available for a question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: It's in the rules, fixed value, tech guys are available for a question Camshaft is also a fixed value, why are they included with a head? Seems like your definition of a "head" includes the things "inside" it (reminds me of the differential discussion) a few extra words in the rulebook and everyone would have the same understanding. If you went to the dealer and purchased a "cylinder head" would it include any camshafts? Edited November 7, 2018 by ABR-Glen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petethepumper Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said: Camshaft is also a fixed value, why are they included with a head? Seems like your definition of a "head" includes the things "inside" it (reminds me of the differential discussion) a few extra words in the rulebook and everyone would have the same understanding. If you went to the dealer and purchased a "cylinder head" would it include any camshafts? stock cams are included,,, after market cost $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted November 7, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Lots of iffy info in this thread. I’m no expert but have some experience with this type of stuff, and would be happy to help if you send me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, ABR-Glen said: If you went to the dealer and purchased a cylinder head would it include any camshafts? Would it even contain valves? I get it, but honestly, how can we hold all types of cars to the same when they are not at all built the same? 150pts and the head swap comes with stock camshafts regardless of config? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petethepumper Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, red0 said: Lots of iffy info in this thread. I’m no expert but have some experience with this type of stuff, and would be happy to help if you send me a PM. I just went threw all this, so know whats up..lol.. if we are talking about civic b20 swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted November 7, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, petethepumper said: I just went threw all this, so know whats up..lol.. if we are talking about civic b20 swap That is not helpful at all. If you just went through this and know what’s up, you don’t need help. If you do want help, I would need information like: 1990 Honda Civic si 1998 Honda CRV B20XX block 1995 Acura Integra B18XX head etc etc etc With mixed engine parts I would need to know all the parts and info to help, not generic BXXX in a civic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petethepumper Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, red0 said: That is not helpful at all. If you just went through this and know what’s up, you don’t need help. If you do want help, I would need information like: 1990 Honda Civic si 1998 Honda CRV B20XX block 1995 Acura Integra B18XX head etc etc etc With mixed engine parts I would need to know all the parts and info to help, not generic BXXX in a civic. I don't need help.. I was commenting on the other guy questions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 34 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: Would it even contain valves? I get it, but honestly, how can we hold all types of cars to the same when they are not at all built the same? 150pts and the head swap comes with stock camshafts regardless of config? I doubt it would include valves. I don't have any intention to change how the rules are being applied, but the tech guys must have some interpretation in their head that they use. Hopefully that's not purely subjective, and assuming it's not, how hard can it be to write it down? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said: Would it even contain valves? I get it, but honestly, how can we hold all types of cars to the same when they are not at all built the same? 150pts and the head swap comes with stock camshafts regardless of config? I thought 200pts with the b18 manifold swap with not being able to use the original b20 manifold... Remember, Frankenstein swap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted November 7, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ABR-Glen said: I doubt it would include valves. I don't have any intention to change how the rules are being applied, but the tech guys must have some interpretation in their head that they use. Hopefully that's not purely subjective, and assuming it's not, how hard can it be to write it down? You want the truth or a good lie? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironworks Posted November 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 hours ago, rod rammage said: Would there be points to claim if he uses the CRV intake manifold? (Or do the intakes from the B20 not fit the B18 head that he wants to use?) I would have to run the b18 manifold. in which case if we have to take the penalty we might as well put an awesome manifold on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironworks Posted November 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Its a lot to go over and I really appreciate the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod rammage Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 Absolutely, since you have to take points on the intake manifold, get a good one then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ironworks said: I would have to run the b18 manifold. in which case if we have to take the penalty we might as well put an awesome manifold on it. I would...your at 425pts with a header I'd put a big 'ol 20pt bar on the rear, put an lsd in it and some caster/camber plates... You dont have enough pts for coilovers(100), so I'd just slap some sport springs and shocks/struts on it for 0pts... Forgot to include tranny swap pts??? Edited November 7, 2018 by Racer7x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted November 7, 2018 Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 hours ago, ABR-Glen said: Camshaft is also a fixed value, why are they included with a head? Seems like your definition of a "head" includes the things "inside" it (reminds me of the differential discussion) a few extra words in the rulebook and everyone would have the same understanding. If you went to the dealer and purchased a "cylinder head" would it include any camshafts? How's this: cam-in-block, you get the cam with the block; cam(s)-in-head, you get the cam(s) with the head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironworks Posted November 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 hours ago, Racer7x said: I would...your at 425pts with a header I'd put a big 'ol 20pt bar on the rear, put an lsd in it and some caster/camber plates... You dont have enough pts for coilovers(100), so I'd just slap some sport springs and shocks/struts on it for 0pts... Forgot to include tranny swap pts??? We have to change the trans. we would put a trans in that has an lsd already in it. and on that topic the mounts need changed as well since the b20 and d16 are a little different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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