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New fender ruling from TAC section

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Quoted from the TAC section

I have a few thoughts on this

1- If this is a safety issue, then why would material needed to correct the issue be charged?  Repurposed material from the car should be able to be used without a charge.

2- The video does not follow the explanation given in bullet 2 of Rich’s post.  The video uses the 10 & 2 clock position on the tire and then goes vertical from those points to the fender.  Using the explanation below could possibly measure a point on the fender that isn’t over the tire. This point needs further refinement.

3- Race damage incurred during a race needs to be fixed?  How will this be handled during a race?

 

“Rule:  4.7.1.1. While tire size is open, tires may not extend beyond the cover of the fenders from the 10 to 2 o’clock positions. Fenders can be stretched/rolled to cover wider tires and flares can even be made, however any added materials used to enlarge the fenders will be charged at the material rate in 4.3.2

 

As a clarification of this rule the TAC wants to make sure everyone is aware of the following:
     1.  Tires will be checked using a straight edge from the fender down to the center of the hub of the tire/wheel from the 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock positions.  (See video listed below for a demonstration).  This should allow plenty of opportunity for cars to run a race ready camber setting.  Please note, the car shown in the demonstration would have failed a 2019 inspection.

     2.  Tires can be checked at any time including pre-race inspection, post-race impound and during the race at any time.  If the car incurs damage during a race it is the team's responsibility to correct that damage before returning to the track.

 

The reason for this rule in 2019 is to reduce cars climbing each other's tires in side by side contact.  This is a safety issue and tech plans to strongly enforce this rule.”

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Not sure how this is "unsafe"  

 

I'd love to see where we've had all this side to side contact, while everyone is going perfectly straight and cars climbing each other.

IMG_20181113_185151.jpg

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The rule was not very well thought out imo.   Yes, eliminating tire to tire contact is a good thing.  This rule will NOT do that though.   This rule is trying to solve a problem that really doesn't exist. On the rare occasion when tire to tire contact does happen its going through a turn from what I have seen .   This rule will not do anything nor will any rule (Unless you wanna make a real crazy rule) really from preventing tire to tire contact while wheels are turned going through a turn.   This is a pointless rule that will cause teams to spend money and modify cars for a problem that doesn't exist.  Instead of focusing on the bigger issues with the series tech has decided to create a new one...   

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Here's what 3 points worth of fender flares looks like:

civic21.thumb.jpg.1be8cec6f46fb0223c31264310996007.jpg

Having them saved us at least two tires the first weekend.

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Personally, doesn't matter if I like it or not, will be bringing my big level to work in the morning and if something needs to happen, it may not be pretty but it will be free.

 

One unintended consequence: 500 pt cars would be tire limited.

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1 minute ago, Team Infiniti said:

 

One unintended consequence: 500 pt cars would be tire limited.

Maybe it's not unintended.    Black helicopters are everywhere. 

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Just now, Team Infiniti said:

One unintended consequence: 500 pt cars would be tire limited.

"We didn't pick your car" comes to mind; is that wrong of me?

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18 minutes ago, mender said:

Here's what 3 points worth of fender flares looks like:

 

Having them saved us at least two tires the first weekend.

 

sharp edge fenders - good

rolled factory fenders with a 1/16" of tire sticking out - bad

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It's a rule.  It's safety.  Shut your mouths and fix your damn cars.  Geez.  You guys really suck to be associated with sometimes.

 

He'll, my tires stick out now and I'm goin to 2 inch wider wheels....

 

Suck it up grandma.

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11 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

sharp edge fenders - good

rolled factory fenders with a 1/16" of tire sticking out - bad

Handmade flares with 1/4" steel rod edge to prevent cutting tires on either the flared car or a competitor's car - good.

Flimsy rolled flares with no reinforcing and tire sticking out directly under the thin edge of the rolled fender - good for your competitor when they touch your fender and it folds and cuts your tire.

Edited by mender
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5 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

It's a rule.  It's safety.  Shut your mouths and fix your damn cars.  Geez.  You guys really suck to be associated with sometimes.

 

He'll, my tires stick out now and I'm goin to 2 inch wider wheels....

 

Suck it up grandma.

 

did you see the picture i posted?  Just annoyed I have to spend time/effort/money instead of improving my car or working on things that are broken making flares to cover the thinnest of margin of tire.

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10 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

did you see the picture i posted?  Just annoyed I have to spend time/effort/money instead of improving my car or working on things that are broken making flares to cover the thinnest of margin of tire.

Yeah, ticked me off to have to do all this just to have wider tires:

Do they sell 205s for your car? They worked on the Civic with no flares.

Edited by mender
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7 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Whaaaaa...

 

Seriously....

  Spend 5 effing minutes with a hammer or fender roller.

 

 

 

ahh forgot, I have pride in what i race.  I actually want it to look nice with good paint.  I forgot some people still want this to be a crap-can series.

2 minutes ago, mender said:

Yeah, ticked me off to have to do all this just to have wider tires:

 

 

what series was this for again?

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On 11/13/2018 at 9:31 PM, MoparBoyy said:

 

ahh forgot, I have pride in what i race.  I actually want it to look nice with good paint.  I forgot some people still want this to be a crap-can series.

 

Still work to be done...  Nothing to see here.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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Just now, wvumtnbkr said:

Dude...  my point is take 5 minutes do some work.  Follow the rules.

 

You have put more effort into whining lile a bitch than it would have taken to get a heat gun out and roll your fenders.

 

I think you suck out loud.

 

Yes, that was a personal attack. 

 

I'm sick of this mentality.

 

5 mins?  damn can i hire you to work on my car?  I bet you could have built the whole thing in an hour or two.

 

Yep, i'm complaining about a poorly written rule.  Look at other road racing series such as SCCAs rule on this subject get back to me.

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7 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

ahh forgot, I have pride in what i race.  I actually want it to look nice with good paint.  I forgot some people still want this to be a crap-can series.

 

what series was this for again?

My not-too-ugly little car is used for endurance racing. Still Champcar legal if there are ever any races out here.

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LOL.  This just gets better and better.

 

I have had extensive conversations with certain people.  Were these conversations (and the rulings communicated to me) shared with Rich/the rest of the BOD?

 

Also, checked at any time during or after the race?  So if we get body damage now we can be disqualified/stripped of a position if the tire is showing?

 

I get it, any arguing against a *safety* rule is like swimming upstream, but before you all trample me, this rule was poorly thought out, and the enforcement method has not been and is still NOT clearly communicated.

 

tenor.gif?itemid=5284292

Edited by Huggy
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4 minutes ago, Huggy said:

LOL.  This just gets better and better.

 

I have had extensive conversations with certain people.  Were these conversations (and the rulings communicated to me) shared with Rich/the rest of the BOD?

 

Also, checked at any time during or after the race?  So if we get body damage now we can be disqualified/stripped of a position if the tire is showing?

 

I get it, any arguing against a *safety* rule is like swimming upstream, but before you all trample me, this rule was poorly thought out, and the enforcement method has not been and is still NOT clearly communicated.

 

tenor.gif?itemid=5284292

So we'll break out the Eastwood roller and get enough stretch out of the front fenders to be legal. 

But you hit on a very good point. A car can now be disqualified from the race for a contact which may not even be the fault of the team if a fender or quarter is damaged to the point that it can't be brought into compliance. At the very least, it would result in a lengthy pit stop to repair and a likely loss of position. And even worse, it can happen after the race in impound. 

I'm never against safety items. But in many (most?) cases safety items are open. So it sort of stinks that flares/material/etc. are going to be points. Maybe flares to "x.xx inches" are "free"? 

S. 

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22 minutes ago, Huggy said:

Here is what 10 and 2 looks like from the "center of the hub" on my 146 car.  

 

IMG_8746.JPG

Nice; you whipped that up just for this thread?

 

What does the clearance look like without the 12:00 piece? And it looks like your flares already have some "experience", I'm assuming the tire survived?

Edited by mender
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I thought that the flat plate connecting the front roll bar to the windshield  post  in that red car that moparbovy  shows was illegal...aren't  they limited to 6 " at least 3 inches apart...that's a lot more obvious than the tire clearance  , ..

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