New fender ruling from TAC section

[chip 971]

So if this is a safety related concern, then it should be free to fix.

[MoparBoyy 721]

14 minutes ago, riche30 said:

If you're unsure, email Tech to clarify.  They have the final say... but I don't think i'd have a problem with this from a safety standpoint.  

 

So is this a written rule or is this just whatever tech feels like rule? 

 

A series that just makes and interpret rules on the fly isn't good.   This literally goes back to the handshake agreements of the past.

 

[JDChristianson 3,524]

15 minutes ago, riche30 said:

If you're unsure, email Tech to clarify.  They have the final say... but I don't think i'd have a problem with this from a safety standpoint.

Do you see any issue with the rule saying something and tech doing something else?    I they allow that, fine, change the wording in the rule to match the practice in the field.  In my way of thinking at least.  Maybe I'm wrong again...I have been married a long time so I'm used to it

[JC_CRapshoot 86]

7 minutes ago, chip said:

So if this is a safety related concern, then it should be free to fix.

Devil's advocate here...if you go to a larger wheel than stock,  then why would you get fender flares for free?  Only if your car doesn't pass the test with stock wheels and tires should a fix be for free.  The "free" fix is going back to a smaller width wheel/tire combo or different offset.

Edited November 14, 2018 by JC_CRapshoot
clarity

[enginerd 4,459]

I am confident that nobody is going to get DQed from post-race impound for damage incurred in the last stint. 

 

It was said that cars would not “pass tech” if they don’t meet this rule. Tech happens on Friday and you can fix it and re-tech.

[Snake 965]

1 minute ago, enginerd said:

I am confident that nobody is going to get DQed from post-race impound for damage incurred in the last stint. 

 

It was said that cars would not “pass tech” if they don’t meet this rule. Tech happens on Friday and you can fix it and re-tech.

Quoted from @riche30 post in the BCCR update section:

 

  2.  Tires can be checked at any time including pre-race inspection, post-race impound and during the race at any time.  If the car incurs damage during a race it is the team's responsibility to correct that damage before returning to the track.

[JC_CRapshoot 86]

4 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I am confident that nobody is going to get DQed from post-race impound for damage incurred in the last stint. 

 

It was said that cars would not “pass tech” if they don’t meet this rule. Tech happens on Friday and you can fix it and re-tech.

Devils advocate again...that team in second place can by right protest per the rule and get that first trophy they have never been able to attain.  Rules are rules.

[JDChristianson 3,524]

3 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I am confident that nobody is going to get DQed from post-race impound for damage incurred in the last stint. 

 

It was said that cars would not “pass tech” if they don’t meet this rule. Tech happens on Friday and you can fix it and re-tech.

You're confident, and that's fine, but that's not what was said.  

I think it will get worked out, and I'm not too worried about it.  

[chip 971]

4 minutes ago, JC_CRapshoot said:

Devil's advocate here...if you go to a larger wheel than stock,  then why would you get fender flares for free?  Only if your car doesn't pass the test with stock wheels and tires should a fix be for free.  The "free" fix is going back to a smaller width wheel/tire combo or different offset.

I guess my question is regarding the safety aspect of this new rule.  If it truly is a safety concern, then it should be like all other safety items, and the fix should be free.

[MoparBoyy 721]

6 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I am confident that nobody is going to get DQed from post-race impound for damage incurred in the last stint. 

 

It was said that cars would not “pass tech” if they don’t meet this rule. Tech happens on Friday and you can fix it and re-tech.

You kidding?  I'm bringing my own level and protest forms to tech.  I'll protest my way into a top 5

[JC_CRapshoot 86]

3 minutes ago, chip said:

I guess my question is regarding the safety aspect of this new rule.  If it truly is a safety concern, then it should be like all other safety items, and the fix should be free.

And just like buying a new tire/wheel combo isn't free, neither is adding fender flares going to be "free".  Just depends on where the line is drawn.  The rule as written draws the line on the surface plane of the wheel/tire combo.  Thus the "free" method is to move that plane back inside of the fender lip.  Once again assuming the stock setup passes the test. IMHO

Edited November 14, 2018 by JC_CRapshoot

[macheesy 105]

21 minutes ago, riche30 said:

If you're unsure, email Tech to clarify.  They have the final say... but I don't think i'd have a problem with this from a safety standpoint.  

 

I doubt anyone would really take issue with the 1-10mm overhang for 20minutes of clock position.  But isn't the goal of the revised bccr's to get away from requiring car by car rule exemptions/backroom deals?  And if that car gets tapped in the bumper and now it become 10-15mm overhang for 20min of clock position, is it disqualified because it doesn't meet the handshake agreement only allowed it 10mm?  And if they want to add a flare just to be safe, where are the points supposed to come from in a 500 pt car?  But since its a safety item, there should be no points right, so 2 inch wider wheels will fit nicely in the now free markedly expanded wheel wells?

 

This is certainly a can of worms rule that seems like it should have had a lot more thought put into it.

[MoparBoyy 721]

45 minutes ago, riche30 said:

Not sure why it's a surprise.... I read the same rulebook you guys got.  

Genuinely curious, which cars?  

 

As someone already posted the boxster.  3 different generations of Dodge Vipers with stock wheels.  one other one has aftermarket wheels with the wrong offset and it passes.  heck even my Dodge Ram won't pass (also on stock wheels) guess i'm unsafe towing   my 2004 neon passes with its 14" wheels.  my wifes volvo wagon is literally at the limit, since the tires have these sidewalls that stick out pretty far, but all the tread is under the fender.

[CabotTeg118 207]

34 minutes ago, riche30 said:

4.3.1 covers the items in section 4.3 (Fixed Point Values).  It has no bearing on 4.7.1.1 unless that material is added (not repurposed) to make those fenders.  We're merely saying if you go buy steel or plastic to build fenders then you need to use those values.

I can see how taking the two together could be a little misinterpreted in this case though.  

 

How the rule is written now, "sheet metal" is a fixed value. It is listed in the 4.3.2 fixed value table. So if you repurpose sheet metal you have to use the fixed value (as stated in 4.3.1).

 

I realize that may not be the intent of the rule, but that is how it is written.

 

 

[frankrehnelt 210]

Why not just take the measurements at the 12 o’clock position down to the hub center. This would make it very easy to tech, easier to comply and still prevent the “five inches of tire hanging out” of the problem cars. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by frankrehnelt

[MoparBoyy 721]

7 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

Why not just take the measurements at the 12 o’clock position down to the hub center. This would make it very easy to tech, easier to comply and still prevent the “five inches of tire hanging out” of the problem cars. 

 

yep.. WRL figured it out.  now cars that are WRL legal will not pass ChampCar tech.  I thought we wanted to make the rules flow between the other endurance series so we could get more teams into our series?

 

even Lemons figured it out;

"All cars must have fenders at all wheels so that no tire surface extends past the body"

Edited November 14, 2018 by MoparBoyy

[Team Infiniti 13,672]

5 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

I thought we wanted to make the rules flow between the two so we could get more teams into our series?

You do have a point.

[mender 6,613]

13 hours ago, MoparBoyy said:

what series was this for again?

[Team Infiniti 13,672]

Just measured, guess our car has been around the block a few times, all 4 are the same wheel& tire yet R/F and L/R fail

 

Time for a massage.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Team Infiniti

[frankrehnelt 210]

2 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Just measured, guess our car has been around the block a few times, all 4 are the same wheel& tire yet R/F and L/R fail

 

What if you measured just at the 12 o’clock position?

[Team Infiniti 13,672]

1 minute ago, frankrehnelt said:

 

What if you measured just at the 12 o’clock position?

Still fails

[frankrehnelt 210]

Just now, Team Infiniti said:

Still fails

 

Law breaker

[Team Infiniti 13,672]

3 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

 

Law breaker

If we need to get a frame machine to pull 2 fenders, so be it

[JDChristianson 3,524]

19 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

.  I thought we wanted to make the rules flow between the other endurance series so we could get more teams into our series?

Well right now I think I know which series needs teams worse.   How long did it take to  fill a recent 100 car field of entries?

Really has nothing to do with this rule/ruling.   

[Huggy 1,777]

48 minutes ago, JC_CRapshoot said:

Devil's advocate here...if you go to a larger wheel than stock,  then why would you get fender flares for free?  Only if your car doesn't pass the test with stock wheels and tires should a fix be for free.  The "free" fix is going back to a smaller width wheel/tire combo or different offset.

Because this is changing the balance of performance of the series in a in-direct (unintended or intended, who knows) way.

 

If your 500 point car (SC300) used to be able to run 275's but poked out 1/16th of an inch, and now you cant, your car just got slower.