Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 2, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I am working on the design of the bulkhead I need to build in order to comply with 9.1.2.7.1. I have heard a few good ideas about encasing the cell etc. etc. For my particular car I think this will be less safe than my current setup. Building a vertical bulkhead on the main hoop will allow us to fuel safely while still passing the requirements of the new rule. Building the vertical bulkhead will not allow the driver to see out the rear of the car so I am looking into possibly adding a rear facing camera with a screen where the rear view mirror went. Does anyone have any experience doing this? Are there any good models on the market to do this? What do they use in other forms of Motorsports? 9.1.2.7.1. All fuel cells shall be separated from the driver compartment by a metal bulkhead. The metal canister that makes up the fuel cell does not count as a bulkhead. Thanks, Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) I know this doesn't help in any way, shape, or form, but I couldn't help myself... Edited December 2, 2018 by karman1970 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 hours ago, red0 said: I am working on the design of the bulkhead I need to build in order to comply with 9.1.2.7.1. I have heard a few good ideas about encasing the cell etc. etc. For my particular car I think this will be less safe than my current setup. Building a vertical bulkhead on the main hoop will allow us to fuel safely while still passing the requirements of the new rule. Building the vertical bulkhead will not allow the driver to see out the rear of the car so I am looking into possibly adding a rear facing camera with a screen where the rear view mirror went. Does anyone have any experience doing this? Are there any good models on the market to do this? What do they use in other forms of Motorsports? 9.1.2.7.1. All fuel cells shall be separated from the driver compartment by a metal bulkhead. The metal canister that makes up the fuel cell does not count as a bulkhead. Thanks, Andrew Too bad you can’t use lexan for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 2, 2018 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, enginerd said: Too bad you can’t use lexan for it. If the top half could be Lexan it would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, red0 said: If the top half could be Lexan it would be perfect. Then meet the requirement by making a secondary cover over the cell then design your bulkhead like a cop car (I just threw out the bulletproof framed lexan divider from last weeks car build...) Edited December 2, 2018 by Team Infiniti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasp Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I believe Bill Strong used a rear view camera in the MR2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 I think using a camera is nowhere near sufficient for rear visibility. The 17” convex longacre that I have gives a very wide view and there is no way I would neutralize it by adding an opaque divider in my car. Best case the rear camera kinda works. Worst case it fails for a variety of reasons (water on lens. Fender bender damage. Electronics glitch in camera OR screen) and you now only have your side views to use. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators E. Tyler Pedersen Posted December 3, 2018 Administrators Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 You shouldn't need a rear view camera if you're the fastest car on track 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Yup, put one in a car used it for a while, isn't there now. It was a simple rear-view camera set up you can buy for under $100 (or less). Camera mounted on the back of the roof. Display was right next to the rear view mirror, we had both because we weren't sure what the result would be. In the end, it added to what you could see, however no one who drove the car felt that it replaced the mirror. It had a much wider field of view which is good as it shows you who is at your rear wheel, but it takes a bit of getting used to in order to understand that the car is in a different location than you're accustom to seeing in the mirror. I put it in my street car for a week and see how it would work so I kind of knew what we were getting into, hence why we didn't ditch the mirror. Look at what the Daytona Prototype cars use. Now that I can see being useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMoneyWasters Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 We have a back up camera in our car and I use it regularly. It does have some weaknesses but on some tracks it's more useful than others. At night I usually switch it off due to the glare but it certainly isn't a bad set of extra eyes. Mirrors are all still intact. We are a mid pack car, so I spend a lot of time looking backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Sounds to me like you need the Bosch Motorsports Collision Avoidance System. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Got a spare? Asking for a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABR-Glen Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 We use a rearview camera in the other car I drive for regularly, it's helpful in that car with somewhat compromised rear visibility, but we still have a regular mirror that I would be uncomfortable without. This car has the setup you are asking about, but I had too many other things to worry about while driving it to know how much I would attribute to the fixed bulkhead. https://jalopnik.com/5927172/this-twin-engined-escort-is-a-little-lamborghini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55mini Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Andrew I have looked at your car and is there a reason you don't just build a lower bulkhead with window at the top and then just enclose your filler and vent line in an aluminum shell? Bulkhead would pan back over cell and make the filler and vent come up thru a larger aluminum tube or bend up a square shell, say 6"x6". I know you can't see the fill of fuel coming up the filler but still should work for sight lines. Maybe you don't want the extra weight or work. Edited December 4, 2018 by 55mini addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 4, 2018 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 We could do that, but I like all the fittings to be in plain site and with easy access to work on. Someone caught one being leaky at Gingerman before race start on Saturday and tightened it up. I also use the clear vent line as a sight-glass for the aluminum fill tube so I can slow down before the fuel sprays out of the fill port. Bulkheading the car in half at the main hoop would provide no downside if the top was Lexan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 hours ago, 55mini said: Andrew I have looked at your car and is there a reason you don't just build a lower bulkhead with window at the top and then just enclose your filler and vent line in an aluminum shell? Bulkhead would pan back over cell and make the filler and vent come up thru a larger aluminum tube or bend up a square shell, say 6"x6". I know you can't see the fill of fuel coming up the filler but still should work for sight lines. Maybe you don't want the extra weight or work. I think having clear visibility (through a rear-side window) to the fittings and hoses back there is a very good thing for safety. As mentioned, I saw a weeping fuel fitting on Andrews tank at Gingerman and we fixed it right away, if the whole thing was contained in a metal shell, it would have just kept leaking until they got it back to his garage to remove the cover. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55mini Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Yeap understand the concern with a leak but not much different from on in a trunk as most are. We have all had leaks to deal with and just tossing out options. I have a higher concern for rear view and not sure a camera will cut it very well. Carry on! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 4, 2018 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, 55mini said: Yeap understand the concern with a leak but not much different from on in a trunk as most are. We have all had leaks to deal with and just tossing out options. I have a higher concern for rear view and not sure a camera will cut it very well. Carry on! Having the top of the bulkhead Lexan and the bottom aluminum would be all good. I will work with tech and see if that will be acceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, red0 said: Having the top of the bulkhead Lexan and the bottom aluminum would be all good. I will work with tech and see if that will be acceptable. I already emailed Jay Mauney with this suggestion and some arguments in favour. He said it will be discussed with Mike, Ray, and TAC. Edited December 4, 2018 by enginerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 4, 2018 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, enginerd said: I already emailed Jay Mauney with this suggestion and some arguments in favour. He said it will be discussed with Mike, Ray, and TAC. Great, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, enginerd said: I already emailed Jay Mauney with this suggestion and some arguments in favour. He said it will be discussed with Mike, Ray, and TAC. It would seem like that the big question is what does Lexington do in fire. Does it provide any, or enough time for a driver to get out? Does it produce nasty toxic, deadly fumes? A hinged lid for quick inspection might work on Marks idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, JDChristianson said: It would seem like that the big question is what does Lexington do in fire. Does it provide any, or enough time for a driver to get out? Does it produce nasty toxic, deadly fumes? A hinged lid for quick inspection might work on Marks idea. Looks like Lexington ranks well with fire safety https://www.lexingtonky.gov/news/03-07-2017/lexington-fire-safety-ranking-joins-best-nation Sorry, been struggling with auto-correct all day, couldn't resist. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 41 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: Looks like Lexington ranks well with fire safety https://www.lexingtonky.gov/news/03-07-2017/lexington-fire-safety-ranking-joins-best-nation Sorry, been struggling with auto-correct all day, couldn't resist. I’m here for your entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 hours ago, JDChristianson said: It would seem like that the big question is what does Lexington do in fire. Does it provide any, or enough time for a driver to get out? Does it produce nasty toxic, deadly fumes? A hinged lid for quick inspection might work on Marks idea. On a more serious note All good points, there is no way we would use lexan where metal would provide unquestionable protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Ray Franck Posted December 5, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 doesn't the rule say metal ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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