Jump to content

Rear view camera


Andrew D Johnson
 Share

Recommended Posts

could you not just build an enclosure box around the cell? I worked on a lemons car over the weekend and thats what they were doing (but thats lemons).  They have a removable panel in the rear of the car for filling, and the fuel lines are going through a metal tube. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
54 minutes ago, ironworks said:

could you not just build an enclosure box around the cell? I worked on a lemons car over the weekend and thats what they were doing (but thats lemons).  They have a removable panel in the rear of the car for filling, and the fuel lines are going through a metal tube. 

 

Yes I could, and that would pass the rule but I would prefer to make my car safer vs less safe. For my car doing the upper part of the bulkhead in lexan and the lower part in sheet metal appears to be the safest way to bulkhead the car.  If that is not allowed than I will go another route. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
37 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

oddly enough the rules don't say a lot of things that seem to be intended.   Might be one of the reasons that the tech email box sees lots of traffic  :)

 

 

  Oddly even though it is there in black and white it is STILL questioned .

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ray Franck said:

  Oddly even though it is there in black and white it is STILL questioned .

Yes, the question I was asking is: 

‘can this rule requiring a metal bulkhead be changed?’

 

It is pretty clear that rules change all the time (like this one which just appeared), and I would like it to be revisited. 

 

I think that an airtight barrier between driver compartment and the back half of the car would afford sufficient protection in a flash fire to get the driver out, even if not made from metal. I have seen videos where a driver literally gets sprayed with fuel before it ignites and a lexan barrier would prevent anything like that from happening.

 

I think that metal would be a better barrier than lexan, but lexan may be a good enough barrier and it has some advantages too. 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a metal bulkhead around my cell and fuel system components with a quick release flip up lid. It is really easy to get in and work on the parts when necessary and when we actually did set the car on fire it did a pretty good job of containing the flames and the driver was able to get the car to pit in where they had extinguishers so we ended up with very little damage.

 

DSC_0141.thumb.JPG.ef1056fb0f2675f0eb8042519865a9b7.JPG

 

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
37 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Yes, the question I was asking is: 

‘can this rule requiring a metal bulkhead be changed?’

 

It is pretty clear that rules change all the time (like this one which just appeared), and I would like it to be revisited. 

 

I think that an airtight barrier between driver compartment and the back half of the car would afford sufficient protection in a flash fire to get the driver out, even if not made from metal. I have seen videos where a driver literally gets sprayed with fuel before it ignites and a lexan barrier would prevent anything like that from happening.

 

I think that metal would be a better barrier than lexan, but lexan may be a good enough barrier and it has some advantages too. 

   Please read what the other series require . We are talking about gasoline and I dont think enough respect is given to the dangers of handling and containing it by a lot of people. .

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, enginerd said:

I have seen videos where a driver literally gets sprayed with fuel before it ignites and a lexan barrier would prevent anything like that from happening.

We've all seen tons and tons of side to side contact videos with no cars flipping from running over the other guys tire too.   Poop happens.  I dont want either, but I'd take the wild ride over a giant ball of flame.     :)

 

Edited by JDChristianson
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, red0 said:

 

Yes I could, and that would pass the rule but I would prefer to make my car safer vs less safe. For my car doing the upper part of the bulkhead in lexan and the lower part in sheet metal appears to be the safest way to bulkhead the car.  If that is not allowed than I will go another route. 

His car had the floor cut out and the bottom of the fuel cell tank was out side the car. They use a caged frame to hold it in place, that way if there was a fire or exposition the flames or force would escape under the car. I liked his set up and at some point if we put a cell in our crx I'll probably go that route. I think it would be safer to have the extra vision out the back. Just my $.02

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats not his car but its a similar set up. then they have the cell boxed in on the inside. I think its a fantastic set up and would solve your problem altogether in a safe way. and mounting the tank lower will help with your handling of the car. 

IMG_2069.JPG

Edited by ironworks
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, ironworks said:

Thats not his car but its a similar set up. then they have the cell boxed in on the inside. I think its a fantastic set up and would solve your problem altogether in a safe way. and mounting the tank lower will help with your handling of the car. 

IMG_2069.JPG

This is why we want to keep the fuel cell forward of the backstays / rear axle... generally away from the trunk:

 

 

Obviously putting it in the trunk makes it far easier to install a bulkhead. 

Edited by enginerd
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, enginerd said:

This is why we want to keep the fuel cell forward of the backstays / rear axle... generally away from the trunk

 

... I watched this video many times just now, your poor driver had no chance 😕 you can just barely see him 3/4 of the way down the straight, but only for a split second and you can't tell he is stopped. Ouch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, enginerd said:

This is why we want to keep the fuel cell forward of the backstays / rear axle... generally away from the trunk:

 

 

Obviously putting it in the trunk makes it far easier to install a bulkhead. 

If you are talking about what happened to the parked car, he wouldn't have had to worry about where his cell was mounted if he had chosen to stop in the grass.  The decision to stop on track and try to cause a full course yellow was the root cause of the problem there.  One could argue that he was successful in getting his yellow though......

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

If you are talking about what happened to the parked car, he wouldn't have had to worry about where his cell was mounted if he had chosen to stop in the grass.  The decision to stop on track and try to cause a full course yellow was the root cause of the problem there.

Moot point. Wrecks happen for a variety of reasons. Trunks get crumpled. I’m not putting my tank / filler neck / surge tank  back there. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

If you are talking about what happened to the parked car, he wouldn't have had to worry about where his cell was mounted if he had chosen to stop in the grass.  The decision to stop on track and try to cause a full course yellow was the root cause of the problem there.  One could argue that he was successful in getting his yellow though......

I have to agree. I still like the cell in the trunk away from the driver. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, we put our cell in the trunk in very close to the location of the OEM tank. The OEM tank and location that passed FMVSS fuel system integrity and any crash testing requirements. 

We have a metal bulkhead and a bladder-type cell with the required rollover valves for the filler neck opening and vents. We also have 2 fire system nozzles in the trunk area directed at the fuel cell, lines and surge tank. 

I would feel very unsafe moving the cell to the backseat or to a location other than designed by the OEM. 

xGrWsr.jpg

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Snorman said:

FWIW, we put our cell in the trunk in very close to the location of the OEM tank. The OEM tank and location that passed FMVSS fuel system integrity and any crash testing requirements. 

We have a metal bulkhead and a bladder-type cell with the required rollover valves for the filler neck opening and vents. We also have 2 fire system nozzles in the trunk area directed at the fuel cell, lines and surge tank. 

I would feel very unsafe moving the cell to the backseat or to a location other than designed by the OEM. 

xGrWsr.jpg

 

So you think that the cell is less safe when surrounded by the roll cage?

 

Or, the cell needs no protection, just keep it as far from the driver as possible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my fuel cell mounted in the passenger's seat area, with three NASCAR style door bars on that side for crash protection. I also have a frame around and supporting the cell. For intrusion protection I plated the door bars and have the 2013-required additional sheet metal enclosure around the fuel cell canister. Three layers of steel before the actual fuel cell bladder would be penetrated in a side impact. The area under the fuel cell is vented and the top of the fuel cell canister forms the upper seal. A puncture in the top of the canister or the fuel filler tube could allow fuel to spray into the interior but that would be quite the freak occurrence IMO.

 

It hasn't been fire tested which is good because I suspect that an incident bad enough to compromise the fuel cell and structure around it and cause a fuel leak might not be survivable from an impact point of view. I did get T-boned on the passenger's side door bars, some paint scraped off the bars before the other car ripped off my right rear suspension as the contact spun my car 270 degrees. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
16 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Did anyone have any recommendations?

 

For rearview monitors?  I went through a few trying to solve the massive rear blind spot in my C4 corvette track day car.  Between the short cage and tinted lexan, cars could disappear if they were directly behind me.  I tried a couple cheapos from Amazon.  The main problems were lack of visibility in bright sunlight, crappy user interface, and being sensitive to heat (on hot days, it would shut down until it cooled off). 

 

The best I found in my budget was this one: https://www.xenarc.com/703YP-7-inch-sunlight-readable-lcd-industrial-display-monitor-with-hdmi-displayport-usb-inputs.html.  The main requirement for brightness is measured in NITS. 1000 is the min for bright sunlight.  This unit also seems a little more heavy duty, and not sensitive to heat.  I like the front buttons, which are easier to work than the side buttons on the cheapos. The user interface is just as crappy as the cheapos though.  When you mirror the image, the menu text also mirrors, which is tough to read. (And mirroring is key, otherwise you get passed on the opposite side you're expecting.  Can't imagine racing like that, it was bad enough during a track day.)

 

The cheapo camera from amazon worked fine, I bought this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018800TR2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1  I think it's NLA, but any with a CMOS camera and 170 degree FOV will do.  I just drilled a hole in the back bumper and flush mounted it.  Never had any issues with it.

 

Hope that helps!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I ended making life easy for me and got the $400 VDO camera kit (buying the Chrystler one from ebay would be >$400).

 

Not sure how much is going to help, I need to move my head to look at the screen. But the Ferrari Challange 488 cars have their camera in a similar position:

Racecarsdirect.com - Ferrari 488 Challenge Evo

 

 

L54Tgezm4_24pCPl1aAEwBusuNA_EP4B_ebJZcpc5ZotrEYKLgHDqox2XCEDTz7vB8n7bK_dQiHzt4Io-AHL02JVmtVuck5fZHtMHkQETsGbMs6URYUOSBOMn34yUFfhuklfVqK15G5m9WCxuxmILjr1-RBn7-b0W-2kLYoe8X4VWvw1ODbmS2aAKhAg0ZWpPN3A-d5KlGcdb5fykJC7WmmGbkczsidqYW0-2CWVL5X302mPTj3mpf0xx0dcLsnVLd6z9OqPaMDa9ulQEPIfGpJ5dEo8rdKqFCJ409956-d-8D8ZL3lrfy4bRf_GBuzlFdjP4ZMSV50NSJu0Mptwz8jb3HpZVB6NB_1KBjuA74IepIBBWNbNKz1XgLRzIlKNapeMGGUBcbukp2jJcxJNv5dHRvbWtx5JKCV5qzTRk2lXoVKECX_Akooa06-KRSxTC7Z7G-qHUVxWmLjlOkOFnq5KxvMt2rBWKOdSOEn1jpSb9aMYMnZLI0nMgjdkvJ9QwQwdmSs6PCrjraQuzZWz_4639owqYl_1C2lOlDIrozGI5TegmupLJ17Cq5ygtF1Gq7n8fAcFwtpz-iaDUYKCWwcRXAOJbsFJf5-yWzEgyvrDOwzlebKcTpDpzqpwi1wfFJiBc4PjRMNfz5g6gk-k5SXJ6Y1XQWMZ83Oo03L-l2XIt9M8huLfPoO-iJAOj3IK10x0H1MIKahpY1lkJDOfnNRJ4g=w703-h937-no?authuser=0

 

In case you wonder, the top picture is from the ferrari and the bottom is from my Miata.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

I ended making life easy for me and got the $400 VDO camera kit (buying the Chrystler one from ebay would be >$400).

 

Not sure how much is going to help, I need to move my head to look at the screen. But the Ferrari Challange 488 cars have their camera in a similar position:

Racecarsdirect.com - Ferrari 488 Challenge Evo

 

 

L54Tgezm4_24pCPl1aAEwBusuNA_EP4B_ebJZcpc5ZotrEYKLgHDqox2XCEDTz7vB8n7bK_dQiHzt4Io-AHL02JVmtVuck5fZHtMHkQETsGbMs6URYUOSBOMn34yUFfhuklfVqK15G5m9WCxuxmILjr1-RBn7-b0W-2kLYoe8X4VWvw1ODbmS2aAKhAg0ZWpPN3A-d5KlGcdb5fykJC7WmmGbkczsidqYW0-2CWVL5X302mPTj3mpf0xx0dcLsnVLd6z9OqPaMDa9ulQEPIfGpJ5dEo8rdKqFCJ409956-d-8D8ZL3lrfy4bRf_GBuzlFdjP4ZMSV50NSJu0Mptwz8jb3HpZVB6NB_1KBjuA74IepIBBWNbNKz1XgLRzIlKNapeMGGUBcbukp2jJcxJNv5dHRvbWtx5JKCV5qzTRk2lXoVKECX_Akooa06-KRSxTC7Z7G-qHUVxWmLjlOkOFnq5KxvMt2rBWKOdSOEn1jpSb9aMYMnZLI0nMgjdkvJ9QwQwdmSs6PCrjraQuzZWz_4639owqYl_1C2lOlDIrozGI5TegmupLJ17Cq5ygtF1Gq7n8fAcFwtpz-iaDUYKCWwcRXAOJbsFJf5-yWzEgyvrDOwzlebKcTpDpzqpwi1wfFJiBc4PjRMNfz5g6gk-k5SXJ6Y1XQWMZ83Oo03L-l2XIt9M8huLfPoO-iJAOj3IK10x0H1MIKahpY1lkJDOfnNRJ4g=w703-h937-no?authuser=0

 

In case you wonder, the top picture is from the ferrari and the bottom is from my Miata.

 

Shouldn’t you mount it where a rear view mirror is normally positioned?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...