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Jab31169

This weekend was a perfect example of why headlights should be requried

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2 minutes ago, DaveH said:

Yeah, but they're talking about making it work the other way, so its steady when the brakes aren't on and flashing when they are on.  Unless there's a jumper or something, you'd have to do it with an external relay that inverts the brake signal.

Ahh gotcha

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On 12/10/2018 at 11:07 AM, Jab31169 said:

I know headlights are not required for "daytime only" races, but this weekend at barber seems to make the case for why headlights should be a standard safety item.  We had a lot of cars running without headlights in POURING rain and you had no idea where they were once they got behind you.  Got worse as the day went on and it started to get darker.  Some of those cars were unfortunately flat black and it made it even harder to see.  We ran our lights all race, both days, and we might even pull the cone crushers motto of always running the light bar.  

 

Some of those cars also had no running lights at the rear either...which is the other reason I was glad we had all our lights on.

 

What he said!!!!

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On 12/10/2018 at 1:42 PM, jakks said:

I’m writing a petition for it. Suggest others do the same. 

 

As a safety item this is something that shouldn't have to wait for the petition process.  This could be discussed and approved by the BOD and implemented 1/1/19.   This is much more of a safety concern than the recent fender rule. 

 

100% support it. 

Edited by Snake

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On 12/10/2018 at 11:07 AM, Jab31169 said:

I know headlights are not required for "daytime only" races, but this weekend at barber seems to make the case for why headlights should be a standard safety item.  We had a lot of cars running without headlights in POURING rain and you had no idea where they were once they got behind you.  Got worse as the day went on and it started to get darker.  Some of those cars were unfortunately flat black and it made it even harder to see.  We ran our lights all race, both days, and we might even pull the cone crushers motto of always running the light bar.  

 

Some of those cars also had no running lights at the rear either...which is the other reason I was glad we had all our lights on.

Tail lights should be required in the rain. I don’t like cars disappearing in front of me at speed. 

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On 12/12/2018 at 9:10 PM, turbogrill said:

But glass oem lights are no go right? I guess  some $20 amazon/walmart/autozone will do?

That’s what we did. Strip of LED on each side. No worries. 

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35 minutes ago, chriswinsagain said:

Tail lights should be required in the rain. I don’t like cars disappearing in front of me at speed. 

The rule book reads a little odd, they don't required headlights for daytime events, but all cars need taillights only if the headlights are on.  I'd like to see it changed to read something like headlights or light bar/taillights are required and must be operational and must be used during bad weather/low visibility situations...black flag if non-operational until resolved.

 

Quote

 


For Daytime Events: Headlights may remain in or on the vehicle, however all glass must be taped or covered during the event. 9.9.2. For Night-time Events: All cars must be equipped with suitable headlights. Headlights may be OEM or aftermarket. Cars having more than four (4) light sources mounted on the car, whether working or wired for use, will be required to COMPLETELY REMOVE all lights above the count of four (4)

 

9.9.3. Taillights: All cars must have a minimum of two (2) operational taillights that remain on at all times whenever headlights are on. Taillights may be OEM or aftermarket. No car shall have more than four (4) taillights. Taillight illumination shall be as bright or brighter than a 1034 or 1157 bulb but shall not be so bright as to overpower/ out-light operating brake lights. Multi-filament and combination brake/taillight assemblies are allowed.
 

 

Edited by Jab31169
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4 hours ago, Snake said:

 

As a safety item this is something that shouldn't have to wait for the petition process.  This could be discussed and approved by the BOD and implemented 1/1/19.   This is much more of a safety concern than the recent fender rule. 

 

100% support it. 

As an amendment to your proposal, I suggest we go forward with it as quickly as possible but provide a little leniency in the first half of the year since someone will no doubt get caught out by an “out of cycle” rule update. 

 

Tech could look look for it to get everyone clued in, but start the black flags mid-year. Our car is fully compliant as is, but I think we have to assume some folks won’t find out right away. 

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Awesome.  Now we can have another thing to maintain and be sure is up to snuff and write rules about "how bright is bright", and add to the list of things that creates "barrier to entry".  This will be a fantastic item that needs to get fixed when you're already having a bad day with a smashed up car.

 

Are we going to mandate wipers?  What about tread depth of a certain amount.  Defrosters?  But all of these "only when raining", not required otherwise.

 

Will dark helmet visors be banned at certain times of the day too?

 

When does it really count for it actually be wet enough to require these things?

 

Or we could just recognize that it is an outdoor activity, we can't control the weather and get on with going racing.  If you want lights, put them on your car.

 

 

 

Part of the appeal of Champ is the lack of rules.

 

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1 hour ago, MMiskoe said:

Awesome.  Now we can have another thing to maintain and be sure is up to snuff and write rules about "how bright is bright", and add to the list of things that creates "barrier to entry".  This will be a fantastic item that needs to get fixed when you're already having a bad day with a smashed up car.

 

 

 

You should probably try reading the rules because those answers are already there for the races that currently require lights.   

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Too many lights and lights that are too bright are also a problem. We were in pit stall 44, approx. 100' from pit in. There were several occasions when a car with an LED light bar was in the black flag station and the workers at pit were completely invisible due to the glare. I spend a fair amount of time studying and working at highway emergencies and all of the studies indicate that workers were struck by traffic because drivers could not see them because they were blinded by the warning lights. I would like to see the lights toned down a bit and a DOT type reflector tape rather than those god awful bright flashing rain lights.

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1 hour ago, Snake said:

 

You should probably try reading the rules because those answers are already there for the races that currently require lights.   

9.9.2.  
For Night-time Events: All cars must be equipped with suitable headlights. Headlights may be OEM or aftermarket.

 

This is the only rule stating that a car must have a headlight.

There are no rules about windshield wipers, defrosters, or helmet visors. The only rule about tires is that they have to be 180TW or higher, and they can't stick out of the side of the car.

 

The other rules about lights say that you have to have taillights and brake lights, and there is a maximum brightness rating to them.

 

It also said "Night-time Events". It will say in the supps, but that only gives you two weeks to install lights you don't even have.

 

We've read the rules

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26 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

 

We've read the rules

 

Great, now try reading what I quoted and my response again.    He asked about the brightness of lights, I simply stated that was already covered in the rules and you confirmed.   Nobody is discussing wipers, tires, defrosters, etc...    

  

 

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14 hours ago, MMiskoe said:

Or we could just recognize that it is an outdoor activity, we can't control the weather

This seems like a great reason to have lights that can be turned on when the weather is poop.    Seeing where cars are on track seems important to me

 

 

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You people disgust me. You have absolutely no regard for the visually challenged. We should mandate echo location emitters and curb feelers.

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On 12/14/2018 at 6:59 PM, MMiskoe said:

Awesome.  Now we can have another thing to maintain and be sure is up to snuff and write rules about "how bright is bright", and add to the list of things that creates "barrier to entry".  This will be a fantastic item that needs to get fixed when you're already having a bad day with a smashed up car.

 

Are we going to mandate wipers?  What about tread depth of a certain amount.  Defrosters?  But all of these "only when raining", not required otherwise.

 

Will dark helmet visors be banned at certain times of the day too?

 

When does it really count for it actually be wet enough to require these things?

 

Or we could just recognize that it is an outdoor activity, we can't control the weather and get on with going racing.  If you want lights, put them on your car.

 

 

 

Part of the appeal of Champ is the lack of rules.

 

 

If you cant make sure you have lights that work on your car...maybe you should consider another sport.

 

Wipers?  Thats on you, that helps you see

 

Tread depth?  On you, if you want to stay on track during heavy rain events

 

Defrosters?  See the bit about wipers

 

Dark Helmet visors?  For you...not for me

 

But hey, if you don't want me to see you coming up for a pass in heavy rain and have me turn down on you and ruin both our races then lets keep it how it is.

 

 

Lack of rules....which rulebook you reading?

 

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Requiring tail lights on in rain/low visibility conditions is fine as virtually every car running here has tail lights in place.  Mandating a specific rain light when cars already  have tail lights, is an unnecessary, unfunded mandate.

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15 minutes ago, oddcarnut said:

is an unnecessary

That's debatable.  When there is standing water on the track and it is raining and your windshield is partially foggy (or any combination of those), it's pretty hard to see relatively dim tail lights.  The point of the rain light is that you can see it at a safe distance even in very low visibility conditions.  Tail lights are not bright enough for that (that's not debatable).

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5 hours ago, zack_280 said:

  Tail lights are not bright enough for that (that's not debatable).

 

Yes it is. Who the F are you to determine what we can and cannot debate here?

Edited by Eman911
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5 hours ago, Eman911 said:

 

Who the F are you to determine what we can and cannot debate here?

 

I have to agree with what's in bold.  We have proven time and time again that ANYTHING is debatable by this group.

 

Anyone who has driven in a really bad rain race would conclude that the debate is over, but we have plenty of people that don't have that experience and are ready, willing, and fully able to debate the point.  The beauty (or horror) of the internet and this forum....

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The underlying issue, I believe, is that we are being hit up with several things at one time that we have to spend money on.   Being mandated into spending is a bigger deal to some of us than others.    

 

 

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The rooster tails and spray on the back stretch at Road Atlanta that weekend were equally as frustrating.

 

It would be nice to have something like a rain light, but I don't see LeMons requiring one.  On the other hand, if ChampCar mandates it... other series might follow.

 

Or, we could just stop trying to race in December..... 😎

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