gundy Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 How are points figured for moving the engine back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 They are not. You can modify your engine mounts for free or material, or run aftermarket mounts for points. S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 True. Then take a points hit for your non stock driveshaft. In other words, you can put it beside you if you want. Points for materials used and driveshaft points should be it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: True. Then take a points hit for your non stock driveshaft. In other words, you can put it beside you if you want. Points for materials used and driveshaft points should be it. If you just hack 10" out of the driveshaft and weld the stock yoke back on wouldn't that be free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Great question. This was never answered in the past. It's no longer oem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: Great question. This was never answered in the past. It's no longer oem.... I think it was and the answer was if you did it at home with hand tools, it was good. There was some discussion of methods of successfully shortening the driveshaft and rebalancing it, followed by the usual miscellaneous remarks about dragging a cylinder head for 0.67 miles to take 0.030" instead of taking for resurfacing and other such backyard fixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: Great question. This was never answered in the past. It's no longer oem.... Isn't a modified/aftermarket/non oe driveshaft points in the bccr along with engine mounts and material? Edited December 12, 2018 by Racer7x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Racer7x said: Isn't a modified driveshaft points in the bccr along with engine mounts and material? If that's true then so is a modified trunk lid, or fender, or hood, or intake manifold port, or cuylinder head port. I don't remember seeing the word modified anywhere. Just the word replacement, "new", or material add. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Builder beware now since tech has been revamped... Start moving engines around and everything that goes with it in 2019 and beyond and there's probably going to be points associated with it as there should be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Email tech. There was language in the rules to force the use of the fixed vpi for modified parts in the 2019 bccr, which was removed to allow flipped decklids. With that gone, this could be free, like modifying the decklid, but i am not sure. The "harbor freight" clause forcing the use of hand tools does not appear in the 2018 or 2019 bccr. It used to be there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 9 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: Great question. This was never answered in the past. It's no longer oem.... So if I take the guts out of the passenger door that is not legal either? It's not stock. Same goes for hoods, trunks, interiors and almost everything you modify that you don't take points for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, MMiskoe said: So if I take the guts out of the passenger door that is not legal either? It's not stock. Same goes for hoods, trunks, interiors and almost everything you modify that you don't take points for. If you try to redesign your engine location you'll probably take points for the modifications needed to do so... Lightening your car under the rules your fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, MMiskoe said: So if I take the guts out of the passenger door that is not legal either? It's not stock. Same goes for hoods, trunks, interiors and almost everything you modify that you don't take points for. Naw. Those aren't on the vpi list like a driveshaft is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted December 12, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 I 100% guarantee that there are cars already racing with the engine relocated backwards for better weight balance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 49 minutes ago, Huggy said: I 100% guarantee that there are cars already racing with the engine relocated backwards for better weight balance. And did they claim the 70pts for modifying/changing out drive shafts and modifying/changing motor/tranny mounts to make it work on their tech sheet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted December 12, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Racer7x said: And did they claim the 70pts for modifying/changing out drive shafts and modifying/changing motor/tranny mounts to make it work on their tech sheet? No idea. If they modded it by cutting the stock shaft to make it shorter, IMO thats 0 points. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Racer7x said: And did they claim the 70pts for modifying/changing out drive shafts and modifying/changing motor/tranny mounts to make it work on their tech sheet? Please post the specific BCCR provision that states modifying a part, constitutes replacing that part for the corresponding fixed value. S. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittenauer Racing Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Many ways to move a motor back some for less than 70 points even... Find the shortest driveshaft version of your car and swap the trans for 25 pts to something shorter, then custom front subframe/K member for 10 pts.... Heck, might even end up with a stronger trans/clutch at the end of the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Huggy said: No idea. If they modded it by cutting the stock shaft to make it shorter, IMO thats 0 points. Is a modified driveshaft not 50pts? Is modified engine/tranny mounts not 10pts each? There are going to be a lot of hurt feelings in tech in the upcoming year with the run what you brung crowd that got away with things in the past... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted December 12, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Racer7x said: Is a modified driveshaft not 50pts? Is modified engine/tranny mounts not 10pts each? There are going to be a lot of hurt feelings in tech in the upcoming year with the run what you brung crowd that got away with things in the past... a Non-OE driveshaft is 50 points. Take a F-body aluminum driveshaft an use it in your RX7 - thats 50 points. Take your RX7 driveshaft and cut 10 inches out of it, thats just materials removal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 12, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Black Magic said: Email tech. There was language in the rules to force the use of the fixed vpi for modified parts in the 2019 bccr, which was removed to allow flipped decklids. With that gone, this could be free, like modifying the decklid, but i am not sure. The "harbor freight" clause forcing the use of hand tools does not appear in the 2018 or 2019 bccr. It used to be there. After the wording you mentioned was removed from the 2019 rule book, it basically makes modifying any stock part 0 points even if you are recreating a fixed value item thus my understanding is a cut and re-welded driveshaft without adding anything is 0 points. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer7x Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, red0 said: After the wording you mentioned was removed from the 2019 rule book, it basically makes modifying any stock part 0 points even if you are recreating a fixed value item thus my understanding is a cut and re-welded driveshaft without adding anything is 0 points. Is a driveshaft that has had 10-20% of its length cut off/out still considered oe/oem in everyone's book? An oe/oem driveshaft should be looked at as untouched and what came in that particular car... If so, I stand corrected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 12, 2018 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, Racer7x said: Is a driveshaft that has had 10-20% of its length cut off/out still considered oe/oem in everyone's book? An oe/oem driveshaft should be looked at as untouched and what came in that particular car... If so, I stand corrected... Even if it had 99.9% of its weight cut out, whatever is left is still OEM. As long as you are not adding material to it, i think its 0 points. Welding has historically been free, but the new tech team might not agree with that. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 53 minutes ago, Racer7x said: And did they claim the 70pts for modifying/changing out drive shafts and modifying/changing motor/tranny mounts to make it work on their tech sheet? Especially not if they did and engine and tranny swap as well . Wait is a drive shaft included with a trans swap or is it like an intake on a head swap? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Huggy said: a Non-OE driveshaft is 50 points. Take a F-body aluminum driveshaft an use it in your RX7 - thats 50 points. Take your RX7 driveshaft and cut 10 inches out of it, thats just materials removal. C4 corvette..... The F body ones use a smaller u joint and are harder to find the proper rear flange for.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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