Heater Core Oil Cooler (AC Condensers as well)

[the5]

I know that it is legal to turn your heater core or AC Condensers into an oil cooler, But has anyone actually done this successfully ? 

Also what about the lines/adapters/fittings needed to make this an oil cooler? Is it 0 Points as well? 

Edited December 26, 2018 by the5

[pintodave]

I *think* I remember hearing that this loophole has been updated - a converted a/c condenser is no longer considered free since it is now an oil cooler.

 

I just glanced through the 2019 BCR and I did not see that specifically stated, so I could be wrong. I'll be curious to hear as well.

[JDChristianson]

There has been much flip flopping on the issue.  It used to be the old way of getting free performance stuff,  then it was changing to take points for performance stuff, and now I think, maybe, possibly its back to getting free performance stuff.   Probably, the hoses and fittings to hook it up are free too.   

 

Send a note to tech for an official response.    For guesses and speculation we can help you out here on the forum.     

 

 

[Andrew D Johnson]

6 minutes ago, pintodave said:

I *think* I remember hearing that this loophole has been updated - a converted a/c condenser is no longer considered free since it is now an oil cooler.

 

I just glanced through the 2019 BCR and I did not see that specifically stated, so I could be wrong. I'll be curious to hear as well.

 

I believe you can re-purpose any material for any purpose you want. 

The question would be how the lines and fittings would be valued.  

[the5]

I was more wondering if anyone has ACTUALLY done this in practice and succeeded. 

 

With this post it seems it was illegal in the 2019 Rule book then changed to be legal -

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by the5

[pintodave]

Cool, if we can still do that, then I'll knock another 20 pts off. 

 

And yes, that is a good question on the rest of the oil cooler system. Historically, I know lines/fittings/hardware were not value add if associated with another item that is value-add. ie - you pay 20 pts for a cooler that encompasses what it takes to hook it up, but in the repurposed a/s condenser example there is no points being taken.

[pintodave]

1 minute ago, the5 said:

I was more wondering if anyone has ACTUALLY done this in practice and succeeded. 

 

Yes - that is what my stepdad did on their GT1 car back in the 80's for the 24. Back when it was more Chumpy lol. But this was using an a/c evaporator not a condenser.

[TiredBirds]

Wow a Condenser would be huge. We ran an oil coller on the old motor but the new one we just use a larger oil filter, seems to work. I'd just buy the real thing and be done with it.  Or just go with one of these. These drop oil temps by about 10*  It should be free.

 

 

[Andrew D Johnson]

1 minute ago, pintodave said:

Cool, if we can still do that, then I'll knock another 20 pts off. 

  

And yes, that is a good question on the rest of the oil cooler system. Historically, I know lines/fittings/hardware were not value add if associated with another item that is value-add. ie - you pay 20 pts for a cooler that encompasses what it takes to hook it up, but in the repurposed a/s condenser example there is no points being taken.

 

If you pay the fixed value, all the lines, hoses, and fittings associated with the part are included in the fixed value. When re-purposing, typically only the material original material from the car has 0 value, and anything added would incur additional value. That said, there have historically been exclusions such as fasteners. I don't know where the hoses and fittings land on this spectrum. 

[pintodave]

scroll to bottom for pics:

 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-autocross-track-racing/939893-gm-ac-evaporator-oil-cooler.html

[enginerd]

I hope that the -an lines and fittings cost points. Otherwise it kinda defeats the idea of using free stuff. Finned coolers on their own are quite cheap. 

 

That would be like using hood material to build a splitter, but getting to add threaded rod and turnbuckles and reinforcing material at no extra points. (Which I think would be stupid)

[Andrew D Johnson]

3 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

Wow a Condenser would be huge. We ran an oil coller on the old motor but the new one we just use a larger oil filter, seems to work. I'd just buy the real thing and be done with it.  Or just go with one of these. These drop oil temps by about 10*  It should be free.

  

 

 

My understanding is It's only 0 points if it is original equipment from the car being re-purposed. This might take the fixed point value hit. 

[Andrew D Johnson]

Just now, enginerd said:

I hope that the -an lines and fittings cost points. Otherwise it kinda defeats the idea of using free stuff. Finned coolers on their own are quite cheap. 

 

That would be like using hood material to build a splitter, but getting to add threaded rod and turnbuckles and reinforcing material at no extra points. (Which I think would be stupid)

 

I agree, but to my knowledge there has not really been much officially said on this topic since the rule flip flopped. 

[pintodave]

8 minutes ago, the5 said:

I was more wondering if anyone has ACTUALLY done this in practice and succeeded. 

 

With this post it seems it was illegal in the 2019 Rule book then changed to be legal -

 

 

 

THANK YOU! 

 

I knew I wasn't going crazy and there was a really recent discussion on this. And yes this needs to be clearly spelled out in the BCR.

 

Per using an a/c condenser VS evap, I have no clue what the condenser would be rated at for pressure. Hook some fittings up with a regulator and crank up an old one til it fails LOL.

[Team Infiniti]

A/C condensers are a viable cooler as they are designed to handle hot freon upwards of 350psi, flow is the issue, be wary when first running one to be sure oil is not being restricted.Careful selection is important.

 

We ran a condenser as auto trans cooler for 2 years, it did hinder airflow to the rad but not a deal breaker.

 

[TiredBirds]

17 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

My understanding is It's only 0 points if it is original equipment from the car being re-purposed. This might take the fixed point value hit. 

can't be $20... You can find them used for like $5

[Andrew D Johnson]

Just now, TiredBirds said:

can't be $20... You can find them used for like $5

 

It certainly can be, when it comes to fixed values the real world price doesn't matter. 

I'm sure cylinder heads can be bought at a junkyard for 25 USD, but that does not mean you wouldn't pay 100 points for a head swap if you used it for that purpose. 

[TiredBirds]

39 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

It certainly can be, when it comes to fixed values the real world price doesn't matter. 

I'm sure cylinder heads can be bought at a junkyard for 25 USD, but that does not mean you wouldn't pay 100 points for a head swap if you used it for that purpose. 

you aren't buy a set of functional heads for $25.  

[Jer]

If it came off YOUR CAR and you re-purpose it, there is no points penalty.  If you grabbed it out of a junkyard or bought it new, there is a penalty.  

[JDChristianson]

1 hour ago, enginerd said:

I hope that the -an lines and fittings cost points. Otherwise it kinda defeats the idea of using free stuff. Finned coolers on their own are quite cheap. 

 

That would be like using hood material to build a splitter, but getting to add threaded rod and turnbuckles and reinforcing material at no extra points. (Which I think would be stupid)

So you'd allow the hood to be made into a splitter but charge points to put it on the car?    Isn't there something somewhere in the rules that says fasteners are free?   To me that be similar to saying you can use any wheel in the 2x limit but you get charged points for lug nuts with the correct taper for the wheel.   Not saying your wrong,  just not sure I understand.    

 

The more I think I know the less I really do.  

 

 

[Andrew D Johnson]

3 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

So you'd allow the hood to be made into a splitter but charge points to put it on the car?    Isn't there something somewhere in the rules that says fasteners are free?   To me that be similar to saying you can use any wheel in the 2x limit but you get charged points for lug nuts with the correct taper for the wheel.   Not saying your wrong,  just not sure I understand.    

  

The more I think I know the less I really do.  

 

 

 

4.7.5. Hardware, fasteners, and materials used to attach things to other things (nuts, bolts, screws, rivets, duct tape, bailing wire, zip ties, JB Weld, etc.) are open.

[Wink]

Might be a moot point for yall..

 

"The other series are all looking into it.  I can say that as an organization (got this direct from Mike) we have issued lifetime bans to the team and it's principals with Champcar, in addition to revoking their memberships.  We cannot afford to risk this type of behavior at any of our partner tracks.  They may be a problem, but they will not be OUR problem again."

 

Edited July 17 by Jer

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Wink
Grammatical error, pointed out by the premium dude.

[enginerd]

22 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

So you'd allow the hood to be made into a splitter but charge points to put it on the car?    Isn't there something somewhere in the rules that says fasteners are free?   To me that be similar to saying you can use any wheel in the 2x limit but you get charged points for lug nuts with the correct taper for the wheel.   Not saying your wrong,  just not sure I understand.    

 

The more I think I know the less I really do.  

No, I hate that they reversed that ruling. The “reusing parts” thing was fun but it doesn’t fit in the series anymore.

 

Maybe my example should have been this:

’free fittings and hoses for a heater-core oil cooler would be like turning your hood into a wing, and purchasing 1/4” thick aluminium gooseneck uprights to attach it to the car, and all of this being free because the airfoil material was hood material’

[Andrew D Johnson]

7 minutes ago, enginerd said:

No, I hate that they reversed that ruling. The “reusing parts” thing was fun but it doesn’t fit in the series anymore.

  

Maybe my example should have been this:

’free fittings and hoses for a heater-core oil cooler would be like turning your hood into a wing, and purchasing 1/4” thick aluminium gooseneck uprights to attach it to the car, and all of this being free because the airfoil material was hood material’

 

Aluminum gooseneck uprights sound like material used to attach things to other things. 

 

and........
 

4.7.5. Hardware, fasteners, and materials used to attach things to other things (nuts, bolts, screws, rivets, duct tape, bailing wire, zip ties, JB Weld, etc.) are open.

 

Fittings and hoses to attaching a condenser to the oil system also sound like hardware and materials to attach things to other things.............

•  

Edited December 26, 2018 by red0

[JDChristianson]

2 hours ago, enginerd said:

No, I hate that they reversed that ruling. The “reusing parts” thing was fun but it doesn’t fit in the series anymore.

This, I agree with 100%, and I think its the important part of the message.     

 

I think Andrew is correct.  Its not a cooler, if its not hooked up.    

 

To me, your real issue is that making an oil cooler out of a heater core shouldn't be free.    I think its time accept this, or right yet another petition.    I would support a petition that says "fixed value parts are fixed value weather purchased or made with left over stuff removed from the car."

 

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by JDChristianson