LuckyKid Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Hello All, A Super Miata cross flow radiator is $349, $49 more than the $300 10pt limit. If I buy a used one for less than $300 does that still qualify as a $349 radiator? Or does this apply more like the 2x rule, where it has to be a new replacement from a major retailer? Thank you, Roy Edited January 2, 2019 by LuckyKid Updated to resolved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotchkis23 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 I see it going for the MSRP value, that way you don't get the "buddy" discounts and such, ask tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 It should be the retail value. That’s just what I think, reality is sometimes different. Do you really need that radiator? Stock miata properly ducted cools pretty good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Retail value for sure. Otherwise you get teams installing $8,000 dampers they got for "free" because they were just taking up space in the shop. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdog Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 16 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said: Retail value for sure. Otherwise you get teams installing $8,000 dampers they got for "free" because they were just taking up space in the shop. I need better teammates. All my guys have in their garages are worn out tractors and busted snowblowers! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted January 2, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 18 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said: Retail value for sure. Otherwise you get teams installing $8,000 dampers they got for "free" because they were just taking up space in the shop. I like how we use the 2x rule to keep costs down, but a 1988 BMW M6 just raced at 425 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Logdog said: I need better teammates. All my guys have in their garages are worn out tractors and busted snowblowers! I know right. Well my snowblower isn't broken, yet...... (its still early in the season) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, red0 said: I like how we use the 2x rule to keep costs down, but a 1988 BMW M6 just raced at 425 points. Wut? Someone actually raced a M6? Sure it wasn't just a regular E24 with badges? I can't see someone being that dumb. There were less than 1700 total imported into North America. When I worked at a body shop we rebuilt one that was t-boned HARD. Had to graft in the entire side of the car from A to C pillar and new roof skin, but it was worth it b/c the car was that valuable....in 1998. Edited January 2, 2019 by Bremsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 35 minutes ago, Bremsen said: Wut? Someone actually raced a M6? Sure it wasn't just a regular E24 with badges? I can't see someone being that dumb. There were less than 1700 total imported into North America. When I worked at a body shop we rebuilt one that was t-boned HARD. Had to graft in the entire side of the car from A to C pillar and new roof skin, but it was worth it b/c the car was that valuable....in 1998. looks like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted January 2, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Bremsen said: Wut? Someone actually raced a M6? Sure it wasn't just a regular E24 with badges? I can't see someone being that dumb. There were less than 1700 total imported into North America. When I worked at a body shop we rebuilt one that was t-boned HARD. Had to graft in the entire side of the car from A to C pillar and new roof skin, but it was worth it b/c the car was that valuable....in 1998. Yea, legit M6 with the S38B35 it appears. I was using that as an example of why anything related to value no longer makes sense when we have cars that expensive racing in the series, and no it was not EC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 3, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Bremsen said: Wut? Someone actually raced a M6? Sure it wasn't just a regular E24 with badges? I can't see someone being that dumb. There were less than 1700 total imported into North America. When I worked at a body shop we rebuilt one that was t-boned HARD. Had to graft in the entire side of the car from A to C pillar and new roof skin, but it was worth it b/c the car was that valuable....in 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, Huggy said: I'm just gonna go out and say it.... this car (at 425) is more undervalued than the MR2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 13 hours ago, red0 said: Yea, legit M6 with the S38B35 it appears. I was using that as an example of why anything related to value no longer makes sense when we have cars that expensive racing in the series, and no it was not EC. yea, sort of like a 1500 limit on swap engines and stuff to get it in the car is pretty silly when this sort of car is running and there are teams fielding multiple Boxsters and so on. Some things are going to need to be updated, cause I bet nothing is going to be taken back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Wow. Just......wow. I'm seriously at a loss for words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just to add food for thought The only way the cost to run in the top 10% is going to be held down going forward is to limit speed. If nothing limits power to weight, and nothing limits suspension mods and more and more late model cars are allowed in, speed is going to increase and cost will climb. If speed is limited, via max wheel and tire size, min weights, restrictors on newer cars, something, I can see a path where you could match speeds with a cheap car or an expensive car. I really don't care if someone shows up with a $70k car if we could have O'Gorman or Probst run it and a $7k car and they are within spiting distance on lap times. We are living in a time where new Mini Vans have 280hp, thats cool but WTF...... This is going to be tricky to keep the series as good as it is now for the true low budget teams. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 The creep is real. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moortom Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 FWIW those S38 cars aren't very fast out of the box. They also don't have the nice steering setup that the e30 does. Still undervalued, though. How on earth could it be valued at less than the e30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 41 minutes ago, moortom said: FWIW those S38 cars aren't very fast out of the box. They also don't have the nice steering setup that the e30 does. Still undervalued, though. How on earth could it be valued at less than the e30? Perhaps not out of the box but easily awakened? Check their sebring lap times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, moortom said: FWIW those S38 cars aren't very fast out of the box. Ahem (from wiki).... "A top speed of 158 mph (254 km/h)[3] made the European M635CSi the second fastest BMW ever built next to the M1. However, Rug Cunningham, of Cunningham BMW, ran a bone stock 1987 U.S. M6 in the La Carrera Classic Race in Mexico in 1989 and recorded an indicated top speed of 176 mph (283 km/h)." "Car and Driver Magazine tested a North American U.S. M6 in July 1987 and actually achieved a 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) time of 6.1 seconds.[4] Also in 1987, Road and Track touted the U.S. M6 as being one of the 10 fastest cars in America" Nah, not all that fast out of the box at all. I mean, its not like they probably didn't lose about 700lbs of luxurious leather interior or bunch of 80s smog equipment or anything like that. Edited January 3, 2019 by Bremsen cause I felt like it 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, Bremsen said: Ahem (from wiki).... "A top speed of 158 mph (254 km/h)[3] made the European M635CSi the second fastest BMW ever built next to the M1. However, Rug Cunningham, of Cunningham BMW, ran a bone stock 1987 U.S. M6 in the La Carrera Classic Race in Mexico in 1989 and recorded an indicated top speed of 176 mph (283 km/h)." "Car and Driver Magazine tested a North American U.S. M6 in July 1987 and actually achieved a 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) time of 6.1 seconds.[4] Also in 1987, Road and Track touted the U.S. M6 as being one of the 10 fastest cars in America" Nah, not all that fast out of the box at all. I mean, its not like they probably didn't lose about 700lbs of luxurious leather interior or anything. So would an AMG Hammer still be 300 points since it's a 4-door W124 chassis? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moortom Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, Bremsen said: Ahem (from wiki).... "A top speed of 158 mph (254 km/h)[3] made the European M635CSi the second fastest BMW ever built next to the M1. However, Rug Cunningham, of Cunningham BMW, ran a bone stock 1987 U.S. M6 in the La Carrera Classic Race in Mexico in 1989 and recorded an indicated top speed of 176 mph (283 km/h)." "Car and Driver Magazine tested a North American U.S. M6 in July 1987 and actually achieved a 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) time of 6.1 seconds.[4] Also in 1987, Road and Track touted the U.S. M6 as being one of the 10 fastest cars in America" Nah, not all that fast out of the box at all. I mean, its not like they probably didn't lose about 700lbs of luxurious leather interior or anything. Like I said, I agree that it's undervalued. But have you ever driven a car with a stock S38? I have and I was underwhelmed. That's all I was getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremsen Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 No worries and no, but I did ride in it. Was this back in the 80s when you drove it? I get what your saying but by today's standards even the Countach is severely underwhelming. This was back when most cars barely made it to 60 under 10sec. The M6 was a tourer, meant to soak up miles at 140mph. It was never meant to do 0-60, it was meant to do 50-130 in the lap of luxury. Lose all that weight and stupid US smog/safety equipment and I bet that underwhelmed feeling turns to a "this thing is pretty quick". But I digress. Just have to shake my head at an M6 running in CCES. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 3, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 How many points is a m30 powered E24 ( like the Racebar Lazershark?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted January 3, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Man, just when you think you're starting to figure out the BMW alphabet soup, more letters and numbers get added to it. M6, M30, S38, E24 - all new ones for me to figure out now. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, mcoppola said: Man, just when you think you're starting to figure out the BMW alphabet soup, more letters and numbers get added to it. M6, M30, S38, E24 - all new ones for me to figure out now. The only letters you need are EC, EC, EC, and EC. Haha just kidding... the m30 is used in some 5 and 7 series cars aptly valued at or below 500, and the e24 had a low power version, too. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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