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Swap Calculator is Live!

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1 hour ago, Ronh911 said:

 

I think the adapter plate alone is more than $1500.

So make your own.  

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On 1/4/2019 at 9:15 AM, enginerd said:

When I checked last night, the listed VPI for an mr2 swap was 250, and the common ~190 hp V6 swap yielded +66 for 316 pts. total, even though the VPI table shows 200 for the MR2.

It looks like they have reversed this change. The 190HP MR2 is back down to 266 points. 

Edited by enginerd
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13 minutes ago, enginerd said:

The 190HP MR2 is back down to 266 points

Seems some things will never change, one of the proven fastest and lowest power to race weight of the series and 266 points.

 

Come on guys get this right!

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

It looks like they have reversed this change. The 190HP MR2 is back down to 266 points. 

Nothing suspicious about that whatsoever. 🙄

 

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

It looks like they have reversed this change. The 190HP MR2 is back down to 266 points. 

I'm going to repeat this and hope that the BoD or whoever is messing with things does the right thing:

"If the swap calculator used the proper MR2 NA weight, the 190 hp swap would add 128 points to the base 200 points, resulting in 318 points."

 

If a car uses the weight from a particular line, it should also use the VPi from that line. The Turbo MR2 swap weight should bring with it the 400 point VPi. Anything other than this is essentially cheating.

 

This stuff just isn't that hard to get right, so why isn't it?

Edited by mender
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7 hours ago, mender said:

I'm going to repeat this and hope that the BoD or whoever is messing with things does the right thing:

"If the swap calculator used the proper MR2 NA weight, the 190 hp swap would add 128 points to the base 200 points, resulting in 318 points."

 

If a car uses the weight from a particular line, it should also use the VPi from that line. The Turbo MR2 swap weight should bring with it the 400 point VPi. Anything other than this is essentially cheating.

 

This stuff just isn't that hard to get right, so why isn't it?

 

I'm really curious what the point of the petition and review process is, when we have no way of accurately polling members or even just team captains.  It seems like management has no interest in actually listening to the system.  Do we know what percentage of last year's petitions were actually instituted?

 

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9 hours ago, enginerd said:

It looks like they have reversed this change. The 190HP MR2 is back down to 266 points. 

This is so frustrating.    It's wrong,  its obvious, the leadership refuses to acknowledge it, the leadership refuses to fix it.  I just don't understand.   

 

Last year I sent in a reasonably detailed breakdown of the power to weight levels that several platforms could get to with the swap calculator.  The MR2 is clearly out of line with everything else.  It clearly didn't matter.   This seems to be a case of the good of a few over the good of many............................

 

On another note, the 944 has been adjusted in the calculator.  188hp puts them at 500   

 

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1 hour ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

I'm really curious what the point of the petition and review process is, when we have no way of accurately polling members or even just team captains.  It seems like management has no interest in actually listening to the system.  Do we know what percentage of last year's petitions were actually instituted?

It was low, around 10%. BUT, their approval / rejection decisions generally followed the majority opinion of the submitted member comments. The membership did not approve of most of the petitions which were submitted, so it’s a good thing that most were rejected.

 

And to address the ‘polling’ part of your post, the board did solicit feedback from all members about the petitions. There was a formal comment process. 

Edited by enginerd
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Not that I don't agree the MR2 numbers seem off, but why don't more people build them if it is such a unicorn? I think if there were several teams running them and dominating the series, an adjustment would be made.

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8 minutes ago, Originalsterm said:

Not that I don't agree the MR2 numbers seem off, but why don't more people build them if it is such a unicorn? I think if there were several teams running them and dominating the series, an adjustment would be made.

Like BMWs and Miatas? Oh wait.... 

 

If you want different cars to have a chance, then I can see subjectively tweaking the swap calculator. But... then there's the unswapped Thunderbird and the whole VPI determination in the first place. Some days I'm not sure what we're doing and why. 

 

Pick your poison: You either have a set of rules acting as some sort of handicap or you go to a 'build what you want to build' model and start qualifying teams by speed. 

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They didn't sell a lot of them:

 

1990-14,185
1991-9,634
1992-5,266
1993-2,905
1994-895
1995-382

 

Most say it's hard to drive, and the front suspension might not be up for endurance racing duty. Plus I believe everybody keeps expecting them to get spanked back up a few hundred points. I've always thought it was a very beautiful car, I should find one before they all turn to rust.

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2 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

 

On another note, the 944 has been adjusted in the calculator.  188hp puts them at 500   

 

 

It's about time, S2 swap now puts cars where they should be at S2 value.   Thank you management/TAC/BOD!!  

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1 minute ago, Snake said:

It's about time, S2 swap now puts cars where they should be at S2 value.   Thank you management/TAC/BOD!!  

Probably just a mistake like the MR2 which will be fixed now that it has been pointed out :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Originalsterm said:

Not that I don't agree the MR2 numbers seem off, but why don't more people build them if it is such a unicorn? I think if there were several teams running them and dominating the series, an adjustment would be made.

There aren't a ton of them I suppose,   most anything mid-engine is a pain in the butt to work on.   Who knows why there aren't more.  Seems like that makes it easier to make the points be fair, not like it would be affecting 50% of the field.   But not fixing it can surely impact the confidence that all the other teams have in the system.    Just my thoughts. 

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At least around here, checking craigslist and classifieds, you rarely see one for sale.  When you do they are usually garage queens with low miles and asking prices of $20k+.  I remember seeing one in rough shape go for $10k.  Seeing how we can buy and build a car and still have plenty of money left for entries at that amount, I would see no real reason to search one out.

 

Now, teams that start with them or find great deals on them and have the money, that is a different story.

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11 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

There aren't a ton of them I suppose,   most anything mid-engine is a pain in the butt to work on.   Who knows why there aren't more.  Seems like that makes it easier to make the points be fair, not like it would be affecting 50% of the field.   But not fixing it can surely impact the confidence that all the other teams have in the system.    Just my thoughts. 

I admit to getting a bit upset earlier and that I appreciate all that the BoD and TAC members are doing. I also realize that a lot of good things that are happening get vastly overshadowed by things that seem to find their way through the cracks.

 

Thanks to all who work so hard to get things sorted! Your dedication and perseverance amidst the pitchforks and torches is appreciated!

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58 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

It's about time, S2 swap now puts cars where they should be at S2 value.   Thank you management/TAC/BOD!!  

 

 

Put money on it visceral and cone crushers will still be running their S2 3 liter motors at road atlanta in 3 weeks with no penalty laps...

 

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7 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

Put money on it visceral and cone crushers will still be running their S2 3 liter motors at road atlanta in 3 weeks with no penalty laps...

 

You are likely correct, any value increase seems to have a grace period, BUT, I only reference value changes in VPI

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31 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

Put money on it visceral and cone crushers will still be running their S2 3 liter motors at road atlanta in 3 weeks with no penalty laps...

 

 

Yep.  I know a few people that plan on filing a petition no matter where the cars finish.

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48 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

Put money on it visceral and cone crushers will still be running their S2 3 liter motors at road atlanta in 3 weeks with no penalty laps...

 

No, we are bringing our new 350HP S3 engine with the 24 gallon fuel tank. 

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4 minutes ago, Ronh911 said:

No, we are bringing our new 350HP S3 engine with the 24 gallon fuel tank. 

 

 

Everyone else has to play by the rules but recently you guys and cone crushers think your special for some reason and don't...

 

Did you at least claim your S2 motor swap last year or did you conventiently forget to claim yours also...

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

Put money on it visceral and cone crushers will still be running their S2 3 liter motors at road atlanta in 3 weeks with no penalty laps...

 

 

That is 100% speculation and probably not the right thing to post on the forum after the series has finally heard our frustrations on this and seemingly fixed it.  IF they run at Rd. Atlanta in a couple weeks at a value other than what the swap calculator says they should be at I will personally protest them.  

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10 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

That is 100% speculation and probably not the right thing to post on the forum after the series has finally heard our frustrations on this and seemingly fixed it.  IF they run at Rd. Atlanta in a couple weeks at a value other than what the swap calculator says they should be at I will personally protest them.  

 

 

Was taught it is always better to be proactive than reactive...

 

Being reactive to this situation last year had no consequence if that tells you anything...

 

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