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Swap Calculator is Live!

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1 minute ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

Was taught it is always better to be proactive than reactive...

 

Being reactive to this situation last year had no consequence if that tells you anything...

 

 

The VPI adjustment in the swap calculator seems proactive to me.

 

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2 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

Why is the start value 450 now? 

 

I believe the 944s value is 450, so Champcar must be using that as the swap value. 

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2 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

944S is 475

 

Well, you got me then. I have no idea why it would be 450. 

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1 hour ago, Snake said:

1987-88 944S is 450 on the VPI spreadsheet

 

 

This is good to hear.  I can work with a 450 944S.  I’ve got 4 S engines in the garage already. One was our race engine from last year and another has already been to the machine shop and back and just needs to be assembled.  

Edited by Ronh911

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8 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

 

On another note, the 944 has been adjusted in the calculator.  188hp puts them at 500   

 

 

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Just went to have a look at the swap weight list to verify that Fieros should all have the same weight (V6 GT) and the page is gone! 

 

There is however a nice picture of Bill Strong having a nap ...

Edited by mender

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On 1/8/2019 at 1:11 PM, Snorman said:

 

 

Here's what's currently in the swap calculator

image.png.fa07e63035b08d7f5737bf547cf69b9d.png

Edited by ABR-Glen
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3 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

 

Here's what's currently in the swap calculator

image.png.fa07e63035b08d7f5737bf547cf69b9d.png

I have absolutely zero clue WTF the weights of Fieros have to do with the fact that I completely disagree with you (and others) who think any OE modified part should automatically be valued as the same aftermarket or non-OE part represented on the Fixed Point Value List. Maybe you quoted the wrong person. 

S. 

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Sorry, guys, work kicked my ass this week.  Here is what happened, in a nutshell: The 944 was adjusted to the correct base/platform, and a corresponding move to lower the VPI by 25 points was also done.  The goal was to get the value correct for performance, not basically outlaw them.  So it was a compromise.  Now it follows the swap rules many have been clamoring for (including me) without being shut out of the series altogether.  They do not appear to be overdogs as is.

 

As for the MR2, it will get a weight decrease but it was too late in the cycle (hell it's already 2019) to make those changes I believe.  The Board was never actually given any weight changes even though I heard the TAC had recommendations.  I believe there was just so much to do in a short period of time, that time simply ran out on changes for 2019.  I expect a slew or weight corrections for the next year.  

 

So you might ask about the changes for the 944 and Miata, but they are just applying already existing rules in the proper manner.  I will take the out whack cars (using weights from listed authorized sources) to the Board later in the spring so that all cars get proper weight for swaps in 2020, even BMWs.  Wish me luck.  Someone posted a table of the weights and discounts; if someone could point me towards that again, it would be a good starting point.  Making the series better is a continuous process, and sometimes that progress is slower than some would like.  Sorry about that.  

Edited by Jer
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2 hours ago, Snorman said:

I have absolutely zero clue WTF the weights of Fieros have to do with the fact that I completely disagree with you (and others) who think any OE modified part should automatically be valued as the same aftermarket or non-OE part represented on the Fixed Point Value List. Maybe you quoted the wrong person. 

S. 

Sorry, was replying to Mender, that quote must have been attached to my post from a previous reply or something.

 

I just want the rules applied clearly and consistently. I'm not necessarily arguing for or against one way being better, just saying how I interpret what's there, even if it doesn't make sense. Hopefully it leads to the written rules being more in line with how the rules are applied (or common sense), which is better for everyone.

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8 hours ago, Jer said:

Sorry, guys, work kicked my ass this week.  Here is what happened, in a nutshell: The 944 was adjusted to the correct base/platform, and a corresponding move to lower the VPI by 25 points was also done.  The goal was to get the value correct for performance, not basically outlaw them.  So it was a compromise.  Now it follows the swap rules many have been clamoring for (including me) without being shut out of the series altogether.  They do not appear to be overdogs as is.

 

As for the MR2, it will get a weight decrease but it was too late in the cycle (hell it's already 2019) to make those changes I believe.  The Board was never actually given any weight changes even though I heard the TAC had recommendations.  I believe there was just so much to do in a short period of time, that time simply ran out on changes for 2019.  I expect a slew or weight corrections for the next year.  

 

So you might ask about the changes for the 944 and Miata, but they are just applying already existing rules in the proper manner.  I will take the out whack cars (using weights from listed authorized sources) to the Board later in the spring so that all cars get proper weight for swaps in 2020, even BMWs.  Wish me luck.  Someone posted a table of the weights and discounts; if someone could point me towards that again, it would be a good starting point.  Making the series better is a continuous process, and sometimes that progress is slower than some would like.  Sorry about that.  

Ummm, wasn't the weight and value of the mr2 discussed like a year ago?

 

He'll, didn't the vpi actually even get changed to a higher value and then redacted?

 

Just curious how this 1 model of car keeps getting pushed back until "next time".

 

I appreciate everything y'all are doin!  Keep up the good work!

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Ummm, wasn't the weight and value of the mr2 discussed like a year ago?

 

He'll, didn't it actually even get changed to a higher value and then redacted?

 

Just curious how this 1 model of car keeps getting pushed back until "next time".

 

I appreciate everything y'all are doin!  Keep up the good work!

Thanks Rob,   I've been trying to find a polite way to ask about the MR2 and point out that its been on the table and needing attention for a long time.  Its not like it just popped up as an issue in the last few weeks.  It just never seems to get any attention.   I don't understand.

 

As for almost everything else that is going on in the series,   Well done, and special thanks to Tyler and Jerry for working hard for and with the membership, and keeping us informed to the best of their ability.  

 

 

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12 hours ago, ABR-Glen said:

 

Here's what's currently in the swap calculator

image.png.fa07e63035b08d7f5737bf547cf69b9d.png

Thanks, ABR-Glen, I just got around to sending a note about this in. I doubt that anyone is panicking about Fieros but it's good to have everything consistent!

 

The "1989 Fiero" is finally gone! :)

 

So much easier to help proof-read the swap weights when the list that was revised only 7 days ago was available. Has it gone into hiding again?

Edited by mender

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2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Ummm, wasn't the weight and value of the mr2 discussed like a year ago?

 

He'll, didn't the vpi actually even get changed to a higher value and then redacted?

 

Just curious how this 1 model of car keeps getting pushed back until "next time".

 

I appreciate everything y'all are doin!  Keep up the good work!

The decision to have "MR2 NA" and "MR2 Boosted" on separate lines was made quite a while ago, so using the correct weights and VPis for the respective cars is a matter of housekeeping, not policy change or petition material. 

 

Of course, maybe this kind of controversy is in the best interests of everyone; once the MR2 values are finally corrected, people will only have dessert and beer to talk about and make them fat and happy instead of lean and mean like they are now. ;) 

 

 

Edited by mender

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6 minutes ago, mender said:

The decision to have "MR2 NA" and "MR2 Boosted" on separate lines was made quite a while ago, so using the correct weights and VPis for the respective cars is a matter of housekeeping, not policy change or petition material. 

 

Of course, maybe this kind of controversy is in the best interests of everyone; once the MR2 values are finally corrected, people will only have dessert and beer to talk about and make them fat and happy instead of lean and mean like they are now. ;) 

 

 

 

Nah.... we'll find something else to complain about. Have to give some content to talk about on the LDRL forum....

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2 minutes ago, FlorahDorah said:

 

Nah.... we'll find something else to complain about. Have to give some content to talk about on the LDRL forum....

About the only controversy is what the lap times for Super Dawg class and "on the trailer" are at each event ...

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14 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Ummm, wasn't the weight and value of the mr2 discussed like a year ago?

 

He'll, didn't the vpi actually even get changed to a higher value and then redacted?

 

Just curious how this 1 model of car keeps getting pushed back until "next time".

 

I appreciate everything y'all are doin!  Keep up the good work!

Rob nicely said as I know for a fact there has been emails sent outlining this beloved MR2 from well over a year ago. Many posts have been made and you are totally correct it did have a VPI change then magically change back with no explanation. 

I’m sorry Jer but saying there is no time to make corrections or changes is hard to take with almost every other platform taking a change. Even the Porsche got a very late hit and it was 2019. 

 

Don’t take me wrong I really support everyone’s efforts to get things in order but please complete the package.

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On 1/19/2019 at 8:55 AM, mender said:

The decision to have "MR2 NA" and "MR2 Boosted" on separate lines was made quite a while ago, so using the correct weights and VPis for the respective cars is a matter of housekeeping, not policy change or petition material. 

 

Of course, maybe this kind of controversy is in the best interests of everyone; once the MR2 values are finally corrected, people will only have dessert and beer to talk about and make them fat and happy instead of lean and mean like they are now. ;) 

 

 

I think we need to use the correct weights for all the cars, not just single out the MR2.  Nothing was presented to the Board on that.  Now I understand that it could have been changed, a lot of stuff was changed.  But my understanding is we (Mike) tabled more changes until 2020.  As I noted, there are a number of marquees that need changes.  That means perhaps the M50 swap could be a lap in 2020.  The MR2 will get likely (if reports are true) a weight reduction.  It's going to be time consuming to go through it all, and I don't have that kind of time, but I will start with the hot spots and take it to the Board later in the year.  Work is still crushing me and will for another 4-6 weeks.  sorry.

Edited by Jer
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Jer I know the MR2 is kind of a close to home topic for you and I am not trying to be difficult or stobborn about it but it has been pushed around for a longer time then many other Marques. My biggest problem is it is one of the fastest cars out on track proven by lap times of two different teams and points were raised on the VPI list then a few weeks later it dropped back. It needs to be balanced with the rest or others will continue the speed creep which is not or in my mind good for the series. Weights are just part of the problem but that is for many cars as you have said. Maybe if there was tranperency on why the value went up then went down it might help all to understand. 

 

The goal is to even the field unless I’m wrong.

Edited by 55mini
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The only thing I know about the VPI increase on the MR2 is that it was never supposed to be increased in the first place.  That was an error on Bill's part, then he also jumped the gun and posted it.  I don't want to debate the merits of the base MR2, the best thing that can be done to it is fix the weight in the swap formula, assuming it's way too high.  In that way the car doesn't unfairly get an increase at the base level, but does get one in swapped MR2s where the problem arises.  

 

As for performance, yes it does put down some fast laps, but certainly not much if any faster than many other strong cars (SC300, e30s, 204s etc) but it also is hamstrung by a smaller gas tank.  It's not just fastest lap, it's the cars ability to win races.  As for me, I do not want an unfair situation even though I do occasionally drive Troy's car.  I've never driven the other fast MR2s.  I accepted an increase in my swapped Miata without complaint, and would do so for the MR2 as well.  I think if the MR2 was winning lots of races, Mike would have put more of an emphasis on it like some of you do.  But sticking to the facts, Biohazard did not win a race last year, and the Ludicrous Speed did finally win it's first race at Road America in October.   So please put down the pitchforks for a few minutes.  If you want to worry about something, worry about some of the teams in the south.  There are cars that are already winning and will win more and more as they lose weight and improve the cars. 

 

Trust me, we've all told Troy to put his hard work into something easier to drive with a bigger gas tank.  But these MR2 guys are stuck to the stupid cars like glue and so they live on.  

Edited by Jer
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1 hour ago, Jer said:

The only thing I know about the VPI increase on the MR2 is that it was never supposed to be increased in the first place.  That was an error on Bill's part, then he also jumped the gun and posted it.  I don't want to debate the merits of the base MR2, the best thing that can be done to it is fix the weight in the swap formula, assuming it's way too high.  In that way the car doesn't unfairly get an increase at the base level, but does get one in swapped MR2s where the problem arises.  

 

As for performance, yes it does put down some fast laps, but certainly not much if any faster than many other strong cars (SC300, e30s, 204s etc) but it also is hamstrung by a smaller gas tank.  It's not just fastest lap, it's the cars ability to win races.  As for me, I do not want an unfair situation even though I do occasionally drive Troy's car.  I've never driven the other fast MR2s.  I accepted an increase in my swapped Miata without complaint, and would do so for the MR2 as well.  I think if the MR2 was winning lots of races, Mike would have put more of an emphasis on it like some of you do.  But sticking to the facts, Biohazard did not win a race last year, and the Ludicrous Speed did finally win it's first race at Road America in October.   So please put down the pitchforks for a few minutes.  If you want to worry about something, worry about some of the teams in the south.  There are cars that are already winning and will win more and more as they lose weight and improve the cars. 

 

Trust me, we've all told Troy to put his hard work into something easier to drive with a bigger gas tank.  But these MR2 guys are stuck to the stupid cars like glue and so they live on.  

Jer, all due respect, I have witnessed a stock engined MR2 at Road America put down lap ties equal to a 1.8l miata running in spec miata trim.  Also, in regards to fuel, the MR2 has almost 2 gallons more than said miata, so I do not get the hamstrung comment.

 

We race in the midwest, we have seen a very reliable and well driven swapped car that still comes in at less than 450pts. set lap records and be the pinnacle of what a performance mark can be for the series.  I hope to at least see the makes VPI start out equal to the 1.8l NA8 Miata, due to all the free and 2x parts that allow it to solve its handling problems, have more hp, weigh the same, and have more fuel when run as a stock car.

 

See you at RA!

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