Jump to content
hotchkis23

Swap Calculator is Live!

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

These cars (that are the same ones we have been talking about for months) were not updated to work correctly, what WAS changed in the last 4 to 6 months that we have been waiting for the updated calculator?

 

Im curious if there were other changes too.  Will there be a list of the changes from the 2018 calculator to the 2019 calculator?

Good questions, and like Andrew, I wish I (we) had the answers. As competitors, we are searching for explanations, too.

 

1 hour ago, red0 said:

 

I am a competitor the same as you, and probably even more frustrated then you are. 

I am not aware of a good explanation, maybe one exists but I don't have it. 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

These cars (that are the same ones we have been talking about for months) were not updated to work correctly, what WAS changed in the last 4 to 6 months that we have been waiting for the updated calculator?

 

Im curious if there were other changes too.  Will there be a list of the changes from the 2018 calculator to the 2019 calculator?

 

It may help to publish the input file.  The calculator is just a simple lookup, with a simple equation based on starting TCV, weight, and HP.  I'm assuming the "platform swap" numbers are just modified from the TCV table. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

Good questions, and like Andrew, I wish I (we) had the answers. As competitors, we are searching for explanations, too.

Since it is a Friday afternoon and I think we all have seen enough dancing going on and we all now the answers come from Mike maybe it is time to get a nice red flag video

put together over the weekend or maybe first of the week with some explanations.

 

To everyone have a nice weekend!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 55mini said:

we all know the answers come from Mike

 

Wait, I thought this wasn't a dictatorship anymore? (Font=green)

Edited by SonsOfIrony
I can has spell?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Im curious if there were other changes too.  Will there be a list of the changes from the 2018 calculator to the 2019 calculator?

 

I have been collecting data, when it stops changing I'll post a spreadsheet

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

Na6. To Na8

That's unfortunate.  Instead of an NA6 with a 99 motor it makes way more sense to use the NA8 motor and just platform swap, or just start with an NB and get the better suspension for free.

 

Was this pre-announced?  I feel stupid spending all this money and missing this pending change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

That's unfortunate.  Instead of an NA6 with a 99 motor it makes way more sense to use the NA8 motor and just platform swap, or just start with an NB and get the better suspension for free.

 

Was this pre-announced?  I feel stupid spending all this money and missing this pending change.

I think I'm confused as to your question.   

 

What are you building?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

I think I'm confused as to your question.   

 

What are you building?

 

We just built an NA with a 99 engine swap.  And we bought 2 NB torsens.

FB_IMG_1546697773678.jpg

Edited by LuckyKid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As fast as that car is, a few laps probably wouldn't make it uncompetitive.  Keep racing it!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

 

We just built an NA with a 99 engine swap.  And we bought 2 NB torsens.

FB_IMG_1546697773678.jpg

Ok so the way I think this works is your swap starts with 300 points now in the calculator.  and the NB diff is 25 points.   The NA8 torsen would be no points.   And I think your wing has to be lower in 19.      You should not go over the big bumps so fast, the back of your car fell off.  :)     No crush zone in the back makes me nervous, but what do I know.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JDChristianson said:

Ok so the way I think this works is your swap starts with 300 points now in the calculator.  and the NB diff is 25 points.   The NA8 torsen would be no points.   And I think your wing has to be lower in 19.      You should not go over the big bumps so fast, the back of your car fell off.  :)     No crush zone in the back makes me nervous, but what do I know.  

Thanks for the posts, I think I get how it works, I'm just surprised that we added 50 points out of the blue, 25 once we swap a 94-97 diff in.  

 

We tried to build the car to the rules which should allow us to take the rear of the car off.  We were told to add in structure at our first tech, so we did and now everything is hunky dory there.  I get that and understand.

 

Is there a spot where pending rule changes are listed?  I just want to make sure we don't miss anything.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jer said:

As fast as that car is, a few laps probably wouldn't make it uncompetitive.  Keep racing it!

 

Penalty laps?  I don't want to put us in the penalty.  It's a race, the point is to build a fast car to the rules, drive well and win.  That's all we want to do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

14 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

Thanks for the posts, I think I get how it works, I'm just surprised that we added 50 points out of the blue, 25 once we swap a 94-97 diff in.  

 

We tried to build the car to the rules which should allow us to take the rear of the car off.  We were told to add in structure at our first tech, so we did and now everything is hunky dory there.  I get that and understand.

 

Is there a spot where pending rule changes are listed?  I just want to make sure we don't miss anything.  

 

Im just about to do the same swap to my 91 NA6.  In 17-18, I’ve been running an NB diff for the 25 point hit.  When I first started talking to tech about swaps, it was mentioned that I could just claim is as a 99 and take the 99 points.  If that is the case a 99 swapped 91 would be 350 base points, but I can use everything off the 99 (fuel tank, brakes, bracing, diff, etc).  

 

It sounds like now that isn’t the case, that I start with NA8 points (300), 50 points for the engine swap, and then another 25 for the diff swap?  So I end up with 375 base points instead of the 99 base 350 even though it is pretty much the same car?

 

Basing it off the NA6 points (250) the engine swap would be 50, the diff swap would be 25.  This would be if I didn’t want to use the bracing or bigger tank.

 

depending on the formula it ranges from 325-375 points.  Depending on the answer here, I might change my mind on how I handle the swap.

 

 

Edited by Chappy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intent of the change in base swap points on the NA is to make it so that any NA that gets a particular engine swap ends up at the same points.  That wasn't the case before and it is now.  

 

What you have now is a 375 pt car (+50 for engine swap, +25 for diff).   Based on the performance at Sebring, it appears to be pretty competitive for speed as it sits. 

 

NB chassis is different than the NA, and needs to remain separate.  NBs are a chunk heavier, bit more structure/rigidity and some suspension differences (along with more stock power).  NA with 99+ components ends up with better power to weight ratio and plenty of points to make suspension changes to match 99+ handling capability, so extra points is reasonable.

 

Miatas have all sorts of potential, and it shows in the results all the time.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

Ok so the way I think this works is your swap starts with 300 points now in the calculator.  and the NB diff is 25 points.   The NA8 torsen would be no points.   And I think your wing has to be lower in 19.      You should not go over the big bumps so fast, the back of your car fell off.  :)     No crush zone in the back makes me nervous, but what do I know.  

 

 

2019 aero rule states rear wing cannot be more than 12" higher than the roofline and the width cannot extend wider than the bodywork...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

2019 aero rule states rear wing cannot be more than 12" higher than the roofline and the width cannot extend wider than the bodywork...

 

 

Nope, wing cannot be higher than the roof and no more than 12

 

Edit. Sorry I double checked and you are right. Nrvermind the distraction. 

Edited by mhr650

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, NigelStu said:

Intent of the change in base swap points on the NA is to make it so that any NA that gets a particular engine swap ends up at the same points.  That wasn't the case before and it is now.  

 

What you have now is a 375 pt car (+50 for engine swap, +25 for diff).   Based on the performance at Sebring, it appears to be pretty competitive for speed as it sits. 

 

NB chassis is different than the NA, and needs to remain separate.  NBs are a chunk heavier, bit more structure/rigidity and some suspension differences (along with more stock power).  NA with 99+ components ends up with better power to weight ratio and plenty of points to make suspension changes to match 99+ handling capability, so extra points is reasonable.

 

Miatas have all sorts of potential, and it shows in the results all the time.

The best thing about Miatas is they are a pleasure to drive at the limit.  The next best thing is they are easy to work on, and parts are readily available and cheap.  I love it.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, NigelStu said:

Miatas have all sorts of potential, and it shows in the results all the time.

 

I agree with potential, but it's certainly not an over dog. It didn't really seem like something that needed adjusted.  Our Sebring time was not sustainable as I was shifting between 7200 and 7500 not knowing what fuel window to expect.  

 

My co-driver is former pro racer and multi-time national champion who should be one of the fastest drivers in champcar.  He was 3-4 seconds slower shifting at 6800.  This is what we need to do to hit the 1:40 pit window.

 

I don't think it's fair to assume we're just a couple guys that showed up that had a really fast car.  We are very experienced racers who should be near the top in a good car.  I don't mean to sound arrogant, I just don't think it's fair to use our Sebring time to judge a realistic miata lap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mhr650 said:

 

Nope, wing cannot be higher than the roof and no more than 12 inches behind bodywork. Your width interpretation is correct. 

Not true.  Se 4.3.2 in the 2019 rules:

"Maximum wing height 12” above roof • Maximum wing dropback 12” behind car • Maximum splitter reach 12” in front of car"  The width on the wing is correct, must not be wider that the body. 

Edited by Jer
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Jer said:

Not true.  Se 4.3.2 in the 2019 rules:

"Maximum wing height 12” above roof • Maximum wing dropback 12” behind car • Maximum splitter reach 12” in front of car"  The width on the wing is correct, must not be wider that the body. 

 

 

I'd assume that means the tallest (top) of the wing cannot be more than 12" above the roofline for those that are rules interpration challenged😊

 

 

Edited by Racer7x
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

 

 

My co-driver is former pro racer and multi-time national champion

...

 should be one of the fastest drivers in champcar. 

...

  I sound arrogant

 

No offense,

with all due respect

 

gtfo with that poop

 

 

 

we get “pro” “champions” in here all the time who think their poop don’t stink.

 

racing on a pro level is 90% funding and 10% talent

 

welcome to somewhere where some talented racers play who just aren’t fortunate enough to have the finding to go pro.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

I'd assume that means the tallest (top) of the wing cannot be more than 12" above the roofline...

 

Thanks for pointing out another thing that needs to be clarified.   I assumed the bottom of the air foil is what would be the measuring point.    Hey Rule Guys, just in case you were getting bored where do folks measure from?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

12 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

 

I'd assume that means the tallest (top) of the wing cannot be more than 12" above the roofline...

 

 

3 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Thanks for pointing out another thing that needs to be clarified.   I assumed the bottom of the air foil is what would be the measuring point.    Hey Rule Guys, just in case you were getting bored where do folks measure from?   

 

Never ceases to amaze me how something that seems clear to me can be interpreted so differently - that just goes to show how differently people think about things and why it can be difficult to write short rules. 

 

 

While it doesn't specifically say, assumptions based on like-to-like dimensions for the other aspects tell me its the top most part of the wing assembly (airfoil, mounts or endplate) that must stay below the 12" above roof line.

  • Splitter max 12" forward.  Should be pretty clear that means the front-most part of splitter can't be more than 12" in front of front bumper.
  • Wing max 12" rearward. Should also be pretty clear that means the rear most part of the wing assembly cannot go beyond 12" behind the rear bumper.
  • Using same logic, that puts the top-most part of the wing as the limiting point for the 12" above the roof.  Measuring gap between roof and bottom or airfoil does not follow the same logic as the other parts.

Think of it as you have a box around the car that is placed 12" in front of car, 12" behind car and 12" above roof and touching the sides of the body.  All the aero has to fit within that box.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...