Jump to content
Bill Strong

2019 Official Road America Spring Double 8-Hour Enduros

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Round3Racing said:

I stand corrected.  That PWC Cayman is 420 whp 3.8 liter.  I raced a 3.8 liter PWC Cayman at Road America last year.  My car does a 2:19 there with the Kink in 100 degree weather.  What was the fastest ChampCar lap there last year?  2:49?  What were the majority of cars running?  3:00+?  My speed in the Cayman at the braking point for turn 1 was 156 mph.  Out of curiosity, what are the slowest ChampCar cars doing there?

 

As a note, the Team Sahlen Cayman that ran at Sebring and will run again at WGI is a 2.9 liter and about 280 whp.

Some champcar-legal and close to champcar-legal teams have run the kink with WRL... The fast ChampCars can probably do 2:36-2:40, so your PWC time is almost 20 seconds clear!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Round3Racing said:

I stand corrected.  That PWC Cayman is 420 whp 3.8 liter.  I raced a 3.8 liter PWC Cayman at Road America last year.  My car does a 2:19 there with the Kink in 100 degree weather.  What was the fastest ChampCar lap there last year?  2:49?  What were the majority of cars running?  3:00+?  My speed in the Cayman at the braking point for turn 1 was 156 mph.  Out of curiosity, what are the slowest ChampCar cars doing there?

 

As a note, the Team Sahlen Cayman that ran at Sebring and will run again at WGI is a 2.9 liter and about 280 whp.

I believe the best time ever laid down at Road America is by the ludicrous speed MR2 and that is a 2:47?  Yes, a lot of champ teams will be in the 2:55-3:05 range and a lot will be over 3:10.....I know our top speed on the front straight was ~120, same as on the straight into 5, which I think will cause more issues than turn 1.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2019 at 2:23 PM, hotchkis23 said:

I believe the best time ever laid down at Road America is by the ludicrous speed MR2 and that is a 2:47?  Yes, a lot of champ teams will be in the 2:55-3:05 range and a lot will be over 3:10.....I know our top speed on the front straight was ~120, same as on the straight into 5, which I think will cause more issues than turn 1.

Ludicrous ran a 2:45 last October.  But that is indeed the best time ever for Champcar.  Higher than 3 minutes would be the average.  I ran with WRL at Road Atlanta in 2017 and there were two prototypes that were about 10+ seconds per lap faster than the entire field.  They were very, very careful around all the slower traffic but it still felt like a disaster waiting to happen.  Here we are talking about a bigger discrepancy and frankly, I worry that a slow car is going to dive into turn one and meet a car traveling at a much faster pace.  I think there is a point where too fast is possible and this may be it.  I will be discussing it at the next BOD meeting (next week).  

Edited by Jer
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only 44 entries to date, better not turn anybody away :(

 

There have certainly been cars raced in this series with 300-400hp in the past.

 

The bend will add at least 10 seconds to a 2:19, also was that on 180-200TW tires? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ABR-Glen said:

Only 44 entries to date, better not turn anybody away :(

 

There have certainly been cars raced in this series with 300-400hp in the past.

 

The bend will add at least 10 seconds to a 2:19, also was that on 180-200TW tires? 

 

Good points...all of them.

 

The 2:19 was on Hoosier A7.  The sister car to mine did a 2:16 on Pirelli P-Zero slicks, when it ran in PWC.

 

The lap time is one issue, but the bigger issue is the speed differential.  Even on 200 TW tires, that Cayman will do 150 mph +.  That is a big speed gap, even on our Boxsters which will struggle to hit 120.  Pros in multi-class racing struggle to control those types of speed differentials.

 

I only know one of the drivers of the Cayman, but I do not know him personally.  Others on my team do know him personally.  He races in several pro series now and has seemingly improved quite a bit.  As long as he understands that he doesn't need to be in any hurry to pass anyone, it should be okay...I hope.  Still, I cannot imagine how that will be any fun at all.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

We had no problems with the Sahlens IMSA Cayman GT4 running 180tw RE71R"s with us at Sebring in December...

 

I personally would be hesitant putting a $200K car out on the track for 16hrs with fifty $5K-$15K chumpcars with some drivers having never turned a wheel on a racetrack

 

 

Edited by Racer7x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

We had no problems with the Sahlens IMSA Cayman GT4 running 180tw RE71R"s with us at Sebring in December...

 

I personally would be hesitant putting a $200K car out on the track with fifty $5K-$15K chumpcars with some drivers having never turned a wheel on a racetrack

 

 

Sahlens has at least been with the series for quite some time racing in their RX-7's, so I wouldn't have expected much of an issue with them.

 

The big unknown that has been previously alluded to is not 100% the car, but the ones behind the wheel.  I just hope staff has a firm conversation with them on how they are expected to behave and if an issue arises they are held to a higher standard of up to having the car pulled from the event. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One entry fee is not going to make or break the club.     

 

The number is low low because it’s Easter and Friday Saturday.    Hopefully RA gave us a break along with the crappy date.   And @Jer  has said they took the date to keep it in future years.     

 

If this car shows up I’ll be shocked if it’s running 180tw tires.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

 

If this car shows up I’ll be shocked if it’s running 180tw tires.    

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect it to get by Tech with anything but...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Racer7x said:

 

 

I wouldn't expect it to get by Tech with anything but...

 

Why not?  We have seen EC cars running hoosiers at Road America before, unless you mean that it is just going to come in at 500pts and be the new gold standard😀....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

We had no problems with the Sahlens IMSA Cayman GT4 running 180tw RE71R"s with us at Sebring in December...

 

I personally would be hesitant putting a $200K car out on the track for 16hrs with fifty $5K-$15K chumpcars with some drivers having never turned a wheel on a racetrack

 

 

 

That Sahlens Cayman is a 2.9 Liter and 265-280 whp.  This one is a 3.8 Liter with PDK and 420 whp.  Totally different animal.  As a comparison, the H-pattern 3.8 Liter Cayman does a 2:16 at Sebring.  Knock a second or two off of that for PDK.  The 2.9 Liter is at least 10 seconds slower.  It is not so much the lap time, but the top speed.  That 2.9 Liter is not that fast.

 

And I agree...there's no way that I would run our Cayman in this series.  Plus, I know the guys who built the Cayman that is coming to Road America.  It has WAY more than $200K in it.  This car was the first PDK Cayman to race in a pro series.  The development work on that car was tremendous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

The big boys will decide.  And our opinions will be just st that.  Opinions 

Seems like there have been several posts lately by Ray/Jay that 180+TW is still required for EC. 

 

35 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

One entry fee is not going to make or break the club.       

Nope, one race isn't going to break the club, like High Plains, Gateway, BIR, do I need to go on? 

I'm not throwing stones, just hoping more get signed up, still plenty of time. 

I won't complain too much since I won't be going myself, but it will be only the second RA race I've missed in 9 years.

 

59 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

We had no problems with the Sahlens IMSA Cayman GT4 running 180tw RE71R"s with us at Sebring in December...

SD Faces ran a Cayman in EC at BIR last year on the long course, which is probably generates higher top speeds than Road America.  Pretty sure we've had E46 M3's and LS swapped 350Z's running in the east, and who knows how much power some of those low VPI D class cars are actually making. 

 

1 hour ago, Round3Racing said:

The lap time is one issue, but the bigger issue is the speed differential.  Even on 200 TW tires, that Cayman will do 150 mph +.  That is a big speed gap, even on our Boxsters which will struggle to hit 120.  Pros in multi-class racing struggle to control those types of speed differentials.

WRL doesn't seem to have a problem with the speed differentials, putting M235iR and 1.6 Miatas out there together, and those cars are actually racing (in class) whereas these guys are just running EC.

 

50 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

Sahlens has at least been with the series for quite some time racing in their RX-7's, so I wouldn't have expected much of an issue with them.

 

The big unknown that has been previously alluded to is not 100% the car, but the ones behind the wheel.  I just hope staff has a firm conversation with them on how they are expected to behave and if an issue arises they are held to a higher standard of up to having the car pulled from the event. 

Seems like some bias against guys who have fast cars, why aren't you equally concerned about a new team with a slow car, their driving has just as much potential to cause issues IMHO. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have cars going into T1 going as slow as 100 mph.  That $200K+ team is CRAZY if they want to run with us.  50% chance of writing off the car. 

 

@ABR-Glen  from what I remember those other series require racing experience.  We don’t.  So we have speed differential AND talent differential. That isn’t a good recipe.  We need to let the new guys run a race and not fear cars that are 50 mph faster. 

Edited by Racer28173
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ABR-Glen you make some good points. 

 

I may be wrong, but I believe that WRL requires some level of racing credentials, in order to race.  In any case, I agree that experienced racers can certainly handle the speed differential.  As long as everyone is aware of the situation and the faster drivers play nicely, there should be no problem.  Staying extremely patient for 16 hours will be tough, though.

 

On the plus side, this is a good sign for ChampCar.  Here is a guy who runs in pro racing series and he wants to bring his extremely nice car to come race with ChampCar.  I think that we're going to see this happening more often.  Racers are interested in this series and we're going to see these types of cars show up to join in the fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

To finish first, first you must finish

 

I don't think that anyone is worried about the competitive nature of this car being there.   He could go have a leisurely lunch and still win.  The concern is inserting a car that is well beyond the upper limit of the ChampCar field and creating a potential issue with inexperienced drivers in much slower cars.  I keep thinking back to that orange Cobalt at the VIR 24 last year.  Can you imagine a car doing 150 mph on the back straight, moving out to pass a slower car, and there is the Cobalt doing 60 mph.

 

My real question is, does ChampCar have a point at which they tell someone that their car is just too much for this series (right now)?  At Road America with only 40 cars, this probably won't be an issue.  He'll have plenty of room and plenty of time to exercise patience.  If that car shows up at WGI with 100+ cars...it would be a problem.

 

EDIT:  As a note, that Cayman will do maybe 50 minutes on fuel at Road America...maybe less.  That was a big issue at the PWC race there.  Cars were running out of fuel in a 50 minute race.

Edited by Round3Racing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Racer28173 said:

We have cars going into T1 going as slow as 100 mph.  That $200K+ team is CRAZY if they want to run with us.  50% chance of writing off the car. 

 

@ABR-Glen  from what I remember those other series require racing experience.  We don’t.  So we have speed differential AND talent differential. That isn’t a good recipe.  We need to let the new guys run a race and not fear cars that are 50 mph faster. 

 

 

With the car count being low and the length of the track taken into account if they drive sanely they should be fine...

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Round3Racing said:

 

I don't think that anyone is worried about the competitive nature of this car being there.   He could go have a leisurely lunch and still win.  The concern is inserting a car that is well beyond the upper limit of the ChampCar field and creating a potential issue with inexperienced drivers in much slower cars.  I keep thinking back to that orange Cobalt at the VIR 24 last year.  Can you imagine a car doing 150 mph on the back straight, moving out to pass a slower car, and there is the Cobalt doing 60 mph.

 

My real question is, does ChampCar have a point at which they tell someone that their car is just too much for this series (right now)?  At Road America with only 40 cars, this probably won't be an issue.  He'll have plenty of room and plenty of time to exercise patience.  If that car shows up at WGI with 100+ cars...it would be a problem.

 

EDIT:  As a note, that Cayman will do maybe 50 minutes on fuel at Road America...maybe less.  That was a big issue at the PWC race there.  Cars were running out of fuel in a 50 minute race.

 

I would say not at this point. When the Sahlens Cayman was at Sebring, they were very respectfully about passing. Don't be a jackass and disrupt the race that is going on. 

 

You should run it by Mike before you sign up to get his thoughts. 

 

Info@champcar.org

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That car is not even closely built to our rules. We have rules and cars are supposed to fall into those rules. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope that I did not step out of line by bringing this up, but I had a feeling that everyone who saw "Cayman" figured that it was like the Sahlen's Cayman from Sebring.  It is not.

 

The good news is that the car is very easy to see...

pwc-sonoma-2015-16-sgv-motorsports-bilt-racing-service-porsche-cayman-john-allen.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...