djsteviec Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 9.10.3.5. Any fuel, oil, or coolant lines (including Aeroquip steel braided lines) (Effective 4/26/2019) that pass through the driving compartment must be metal or encased in continuous steel conduit or aluminum tube. (Flex- conduit is not acceptable. (Effective 4/26/2019) Lines wrapped in aluminum tape are not acceptable.) Really?? I get the fuel, it ignites from vapor and the flame travels with it. Coolant/water is not flammable and oil needs fire or an extreme heat source, which is not in the cockpit! I have had my Accusump on my passenger floor since I started racing in my old CR-X. The new car has the Accusump mounted on the tunnel and the line runs along the pass side tunnel and through the FW. How is this possibly a safety issue? On top of that, it is an electronic pressure valve control, so the oil is not getting hot and circulating through the engine. There is no room to enclose it and no other series does this. I would be EC with the new car, but if the oil line needs to be enclosed, I guess I can no longer race in Champ. Edited January 19, 2019 by djsteviec 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 NASCAR only requires that oil lines passing through the cockpit be within the perimeter of the roll cage, so I'm not sure why Champcar has a higher spec than that. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronh911 Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) I agree with Steve on this, we have just excluded a slew of cars from being able to race with us. Edited January 19, 2019 by Ronh911 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Am I the only one who reads this and says "aeroquip is steel (METAL) braided lines, so they must be fine"? Tech said in a different thread that when they say metal in this section they mean "solid metal tube", why doesn't the rule say "solid metal tube"?? It seems like every time ChampCar writes a rule, they get 95% of the way to writing a clear, sufficient rule. Edited January 19, 2019 by enginerd 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, enginerd said: Am I the only one who reads this and says "aeroquip is steel braided lines, so they must be fine"? Tech said in a different thread that when they say metal in this section they mean "solid metal tube", why doesn't the rule say "solid metal tube"?? It seems like every time ChampCar writes a rule, they get 95% of the way to writing a clear, sufficient rule. Aeroquip et al are good enough for just about every professional series out there. Edited January 19, 2019 by mender 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsteviec Posted January 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 I have the black nylon braided lines for all of my lines on the car. If i had to change the one line in the car, from the Accusump to the FW- I would not like it, but would do it if needed. Trying to enclose it is not feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 I've heard of SS lines springing a leak but I've never seen that. I change them when they show any signs of age or fraying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 I don’t disagree with the oil lines possibly being left out of this rule. I’m not sure justifying it by highlighting a bad leaky fitting of the type they want covered up is the way to go. What happens when that crappy fitting is the one at the accusump and all 3 quarts are dumped in the passenger compartment meant and the driver. The irony is strong here to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittenauer Racing Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) I've posted similar in a few threads now, but hopefully @Ray Franck or @Jay Mauney or @National Tech sees this and gives us some answers. What is the end goal of this rule? Are we trying to keep something from cutting a good-condition braided stainless AN line or are we trying to prevent spray from an aged out/failed line? Putting pumps/filters/tanks/plastic/vinyl hoses, etc behind a bulkhead makes sense. Most of time if a line fails, it's at the fitting in my experience, so tuck those away. In terms of crush/cut or abrasion, a good condition AN line will do better than a hard pipe. AN line also does better with vibration/boucing around (won't stress fatigue nearly as fast) and has some give in an accident. I have heard of lines aging out (or people using the wrong kind of hose), and lines leaking/spraying/misting, but by putting it in a tube, now you don't see the leak and now you either have A) a big puddle under the car wherever that pipe happens to come out, probably near hot things or B ) a hard line full of fuel that you don't even know about. In terms of preventing spray, flex conduit, a fabric sleeve or even alu tape would prevent spray onto a driver and allow a team to find the leak faster. The rules are the rules, and we will build accordingly, but there's some kind of perceived threat here we either don't know of, aren't understanding, or this hasn't been thought through fully before launch. Vinyl fill hoses, fuel pumps, filters, buckets of fittings, that all make sense. Send and return lines though? Heater hoses? Not so much.... Edited January 19, 2019 by Wittenauer Racing 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittenauer Racing Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Ronh911 said: I agree with Stee on this, we have just excluded a slew of cars from being able to race with us. Yep, any car that has an analog pressure gauge or heater will probably fail. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 Oh crap, I didn't think about my heater core! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 1/8 in copper oil gauge line fails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Wittenauer Racing said: Yep, any car that has an analog pressure gauge or heater will probably fail. 1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said: Oh crap, I didn't think about my heater core! 2 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: 1/8 in copper oil gauge line fails? Yep. Seems like some details need to be thought about and worked through. Its just not easy to right a rule that’s sort and actually works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, JDChristianson said: Its It's just not easy to right write a rule that’s sort short and actually works. Yup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said: 1/8 in copper oil gauge line fails? Eventually, and it's very slow to react to changes compared to a -4 line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, mender said: Eventually, and it's very slow to react to changes compared to a -4 line. We are aware if the slow response of the basic/traditional hookup method, but honestly, a non issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsteviec Posted January 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Cover fuel lines or anything fuel related. End of story. Nothing else inside needs to be messed with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 The heater core thing is going to be a huge impact, right? That'll eliminate most of the Spec cars, ECs from other series, ect. I know alot of specs miatas have cages that make it really hard to remove the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, LuckyKid said: The heater core thing is going to be a huge impact, right? That'll eliminate most of the Spec cars, ECs from other series, ect. I know alot of specs miatas have cages that make it really hard to remove the dash. I bet at the end of the day it won't eliminate any cars. It'll get worked out. I sorta want to watch Jay or Ray get in our car far enough to see if there is a heater core and if its covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 My heater core was relocated about 1.5 feet. It's in a battery box with a blower attached. The lines are properly specd and well attached. There is about 2 feet total of heater line in the passenger side of the car. I guess I could just get some big conduit and cover them. They wouldnt really be water tight.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 2:06 PM, Team Infiniti said: 1/8 in copper oil gauge line fails? 9.10.3.5. Any fuel, oil, or coolant lines that pass through the driving compartment must be metal or.... Last I checked copper was a metal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispykritter Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 so...I need to remove my autometer oil pressure gauge that uses a really small plastic hose and replace it with either a copper tube or some kinda electronic gauge? Literal reading of the rule leads me to believe that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Actually, I think you would need to enclose even the thin copper line in some metal too unless it is oem. Maybe not. I am confused now... nevermind. Edited January 23, 2019 by wvumtnbkr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRVOLKS Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I see this as some thing Mike and Jay and Ray missed so come on you three set it right here!!! I see the fuel stuff being covered but a steel braided oil line or a high pressure made up line needing to be recovered that,s way to far out there. We have way to many thing to fix like the fenders I had to go out and buy a English wheel to meet your fender rule. www.DRVOLKS.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispykritter Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: Actually, I think you would need to enclose even the thin copper line in some metal too unless it is oem. Maybe not. I am confused now... nevermind. Hey wait, how about copper over the plastic line? course, then, how do I seal it to the gauge? Not sure if I'm being sarcastic or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.