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I was sorting through the latest Fixed Value list to see how Champcar is valuing mods on the 2019 tech sheet and decided to group them by ascending order of points to see if there were any bargains to be had.

 

0 Points:

Air intake ahead of throttle body

Brake cooling ducts

Brake pads/shoes

Redrilled stock components for camber/caster adjustment

ECU

Screens protecting radiator or brake ducts

Suspension bushings, poly, etc. stock geometry

Wheel spacers, max 1.25" wide 

 

5 Points:

Camber/caster adjustment, homemade, pair, each end

Differential cover, non-OE

Heim joints, each

Offset bushings, per corner

Pulley, engine, non-OE, single

Radiator, non-aluminum, non-OE

 

10 Points:

Aero, per device

Ignition coil(s), aftermarket

Mounts, per engine and per transmission

Oil accumulator

Power steering, electro-hydraulic

Pulley, multiple

Radiator, all aluminum, non-OE less than $300

Shock/tower reinforcement, each

Springs, non-OE including coil-overs

Suspension component, not otherwise listed, non-OE, per corner

Tubular front subframe (bolt-on only)

 

20 Points:

Aftermarket camber/caster, per end 

Distributor, non-OE, or after market

Oil cooler, engine, trans, diff, each

Sway bar, non-OE including end links, each axle

 

25 Points:

CVs/axles, non-OE, pair

Differential swap

Exhaust header, per engine

Fiberglass/Composite hood/bonnet 

Oil pan, non-OE

Shock absorbers/struts over the 2X limit and/or damping adjustment

Transmission/transaxle, includes adapters

Turbocharger/supercharger intercoolers, non-OE

 

30 Points:

Radiator, all aluminum over $300

 

And the big ticket stuff:

 

50 Points:

Camshaft or valvetrain, non-OE per engine

Carburation/intake manifold or throttle bod, non-OE

Driveshaft, non-OE, per

 

100 Points:

Cylinder head(s), non-OE and/or non-matching

Dry sump assembly

Turbochargers and superchargers, non-OE

 

 

And of course, a few questions arising from this list:

1. Cams are per engine, cylinder heads are per engine; are carbs/throttle bodies/intake per engine?

2. Transmission/transaxle swap, includes adapters: does that also include CVs/axles if needed?

3. Fiberglass/Composite hood: I assume it should say non-OE?

4. Springs, non-OE: no mention of the old +/- 0.25" diameter on the tech sheet so H&R etc. springs are now 10 points per corner?

5. I see non-OE a lot; does this include stock-to-that-car parts that have been modified? Eg, shortened/welded control arms vs aftermarket suspension component? Cut coil spring vs aftermarket?

 

 

 

Edited by mender

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58 minutes ago, mender said:

I was sorting through the latest Fixed Value list to see how Champcar is valuing mods on the 2019 tech sheet and decided to group them by ascending order of points to see if there were any bargains to be had.

 

0 Points:

Air intake ahead of throttle body

Brake cooling ducts

Brake pads/shoes

Redrilled stock components for camber/caster adjustment

ECU

Screens protecting radiator or brake ducts

Suspension bushings, poly, etc. stock geometry

Wheel spacers, max 1.25" wide 

 

5 Points:

Camber/caster adjustment, homemade, pair, each end

Differential cover, non-OE

Heim joints, each

Offset bushings, per corner

Pulley, engine, non-OE, single

Radiator, non-aluminum, non-OE

 

10 Points:

Aero, per device

Ignition coil(s), aftermarket

Mounts, per engine and per transmission

Oil accumulator

Power steering, electro-hydraulic

Pulley, multiple

Radiator, all aluminum, non-OE less than $300

Shock/tower reinforcement, each

Springs, non-OE including coil-overs

Suspension component, not otherwise listed, non-OE, per corner

Tubular front subframe (bolt-on only)

 

20 Points:

Aftermarket camber/caster, per end 

Distributor, non-OE, or after market

Oil cooler, engine, trans, diff, each

Sway bar, non-OE including end links, each axle

 

25 Points:

CVs/axles, non-OE, pair

Differential swap

Exhaust header, per engine

Fiberglass/Composite hood/bonnet 

Oil pan, non-OE

Shock absorbers/struts over the 2X limit and/or damping adjustment

Transmission/transaxle, includes adapters

Turbocharger/supercharger intercoolers, non-OE

 

30 Points:

Radiator, all aluminum over $300

 

And the big ticket stuff:

 

50 Points:

Camshaft or valvetrain, non-OE per engine

Carburation/intake manifold or throttle bod, non-OE

Driveshaft, non-OE, per

 

100 Points:

Cylinder head(s), non-OE and/or non-matching

Dry sump assembly

Turbochargers and superchargers, non-OE

 

 

And of course, a few questions arising from this list:

1. Cams are per engine, cylinder heads are per engine; are carbs/throttle bodies/intake per engine?

2. Transmission/transaxle swap, includes adapters: does that also include CVs/axles if needed?

3. Fiberglass/Composite hood: I assume it should say non-OE?

4. Springs, non-OE: no mention of the old +/- 0.25" diameter on the tech sheet so H&R etc. springs are now 10 points per corner?

5. I see non-OE a lot; does this include stock-to-that-car parts that have been modified? Eg, shortened/welded control arms vs aftermarket suspension component? Cut coil spring vs aftermarket?

 

 

 

What I just looked at in the fixed point values still says springs that are the same size a is +\- .25 are zero. 

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50 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

What I just looked at in the fixed point values still says springs that are the same size a is +\- .25 are zero. 

Yeah, I saw that too. Wouldn't hurt to have that on the tech sheet.

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1 hour ago, mender said:

Yeah, I saw that too. Wouldn't hurt to have that on the tech sheet.

I know when I looked at a lot of the aftermarket miata springs when this rule was put in place, almost all of the easy to find "bolt on" ones that were sold did not meet the technical spec as called out in the rule book...

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4 hours ago, mender said:

1. Cams are per engine, cylinder heads are per engine; are carbs/throttle bodies/intake per engine?

All per engine, whats going to be interesting is when someone converts from 1 for all verses 1 for each bank or cyl

 

4 hours ago, mender said:

2. Transmission/transaxle swap, includes adapters: does that also include CVs/axles if needed?

Interested in the answer but axles are specified 25 pts as mentioned.

 

4 hours ago, mender said:

3. Fiberglass/Composite hood: I assume it should say non-OE?

It should mention non OE , a easy fix.

 

4 hours ago, mender said:

4. Springs, non-OE: no mention of the old +/- 0.25" diameter on the tech sheet so H&R etc. springs are now 10 points per corner?

Personally missed that one, was still going by the +/- .25

 

4 hours ago, mender said:

5. I see non-OE a lot; does this include stock-to-that-car parts that have been modified? Eg, shortened/welded control arms vs aftermarket suspension component? Cut coil spring vs aftermarket?

Why the need to split these hairs? This one feels a little troll-ie

Edited by Team Infiniti

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6 hours ago, mender said:

3. Fiberglass/Composite hood: I assume it should say non-OE?

 

1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

It should mention non OE , a easy fix.

 

It does in the 'section heading' thing. If it's a stock part, then it isn't being discussed in the following subsections.

4.3.1. Non-stock Component Values:

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1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

Why the need to split these hairs? This one feels a little troll-ie

A hair that could break the camel's back, to stretch a phrase.

 

There was a discussion recently that argued that a stock part that had been modified was no longer considered a stock part. Just wondering if there was a solid resolution to that.

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1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

Interested in the answer but axles are specified 25 pts as mentioned.

Engine swaps include mounts but they are listed separately.

 

I seem to recall that at one time the parts needed to complete a swap were considered part of the swap point cost. 

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10 minutes ago, enginerd said:

It does in the 'section heading' thing. If it's a stock part, then it isn't being discussed in the following subsections.

4.3.1. Non-stock Component Values:

The definition of stock has been bandied about in recent times, with statements that the definition of "stock" in one section of the rules didn't necessarily pertain to the usage of "stock" in other sections. 

 

Has there been any change in that?

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4 minutes ago, mender said:

Engine swaps include mounts but they are listed separately.

 

I seem to recall that at one time the parts needed to complete a swap were considered part of the swap point cost. 

I know a team who uses aftermarket engine mounts on their stock engine.

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6 minutes ago, mender said:

A hair that could break the camel's back, to stretch a phrase.

 

There was a discussion recently that argued that a stock part that had been modified was no longer considered a stock part. Just wondering if there was a solid resolution to that.

It was discussed by one or 2 people, the modifying of stock parts has been happening in this series since inception.

 

3 minutes ago, mender said:

Engine swaps include mounts but they are listed separately.

 

I seem to recall that at one time the parts needed to complete a swap were considered part of the swap point cost. 

Free as long as the mounts fit within $1500 of the swaps actual cost

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3 minutes ago, mender said:

The definition of stock has been bandied about in recent times, with statements that the definition of "stock" in one section of the rules didn't necessarily pertain to the usage of "stock" in other sections. 

 

Has there been any change in that?

Nope... hasn't actually been defined except in 4.5.7

Edited by enginerd

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4 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

It was discussed by one or 2 people, the modifying of stock parts has been happening in this series since inception.

So I'm assuming modded parts are still considered stock but are subject to the fab rules, i.e. materials and such.

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

All per engine, whats going to be interesting is when someone converts from 1 for all verses 1 for each bank or cyl

 As an engine guy, I'm always finding interesting stuff. Picked up one of these:

Related image

And was thinking about converting it to electronic injectors and adapting it to the Civic. Should be 50 points from what I see. I also have a pair of 45 mm Webers so am wondering if that would also be 50 points.

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On the flip side, all time worst bang for the buck:

 

Driveshaft at a ridiculous 50 points closely followed by a fiberglass hood at 25 points which is likely heavier than the stock gutted steel, then a coil at 10 points.

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11 minutes ago, mender said:

 As an engine guy, I'm always finding interesting stuff. Picked up one of these:

Related image

And was thinking about converting it to electronic injectors and adapting it to the Civic. Should be 50 points from what I see. I also have a pair of 45 mm Webers so am wondering if that would also be 50 points.

Figured something was on your mind, I would run that by the TAC for their opinion.

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8 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

On the flip side, all time worst bang for the buck:

 

Driveshaft at a ridiculous 50 points closely followed by a fiberglass hood at 25 points which is likely heavier than the stock gutted steel, then a coil at 10 points.

Agree 100%. 

Our gutted, OE composite hood is lighter than the OEM fiberglass hood we had. There is zero performance difference.

And 50 points for a DS is silly. Hell, going from a steel to aluminum DS in a Fox or SN95 saves a whopping 4#. There has never been a documented hp gain from one. And weight reduction is free...

The only real advantage is a reduction of driveline vibration and the AM aluminum shafts are typically stronger.

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59 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I know a team who uses aftermarket engine mounts on their stock engine.

For points, I hope?

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9 minutes ago, mender said:

For points, I hope?

Yes. It says right there on the list that it's 10 points.

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image.png.74be79244c660d43ff153d89b92e70d1.png

The other day I was working on a ford truck with a variable intake runner issue, while working, I was daydreaming about this very setup, how about modifying the stack to have a variable length, make linkage and have the PCM run a motor to play em like a trombone? 🤩

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Just now, enginerd said:

Yes. It says right there on the list that it's 10 points.

Just making sure, not everything is done by the rules. :)

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20 minutes ago, mender said:

Just making sure, not everything is done by the rules. :)

The new staff has been catching things like the offset bolts in the subframe trailing arms that are used to adjust rear toe / camber in the e30. I'm pretty sure they will catch some engine mounts!

 

 

55 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

fiberglass hood at 25 points which is likely heavier than the stock gutted steel

This is not the case with the BMW hoods that I have looked at, maybe the Mustang hoods are different... I would snatch up an aftermarket hood in a heartbeat if they were 0 points. Lighter and stiffer than the gutted steel hood.

Edited by enginerd

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17 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

image.png.74be79244c660d43ff153d89b92e70d1.png

The other day I was working on a ford truck with a variable intake runner issue, while working, I was daydreaming about this very setup, how about modifying the stack to have a variable length, make linkage and have the PCM run a motor to play em like a trombone? 🤩

Ala F1 of days gone by?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/videos/a32452/how-variable-length-intake-works/

 

The turbulence explanation is unfortunately wrong but the graph of the length of the runners is interesting. I have found that changing the length of just the intake (static of course) can make holes in the torque curve because of the interaction with the header scavenging. The OHC six that I did last year made some pretty startling power and torque gains when switching from the four barrel and intake to the triple Webers. An EFI ITB system with no venturis would have been even better, and a rotary or flat plate throttle system would be better still.

 

As always, it's a battle to get the most benefit within the power band of the engine, and it would be a lot of fun to try out a variable length system on the dyno. :)

Edited by mender
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Just now, enginerd said:

This is not the case with the BMW hoods that I have looked at, maybe the Mustang hoods are different... I would snatch up an aftermarket hood in a heartbeat if they were 0 points. Lighter and much much stiffer than the gutted steel hood.

I have a carbon fiber E36 hood hanging on my shop wall ... :)

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