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Hi,

 

I definitely don't need to get involved in more sports/race cars but what about Porsche 944 race cars? Not a crime to dream.

 

I have heard they handle great and would be cool to race a Porsche.  Are they getting to old to work on?

 

How would the do compared to a S2000 with same PWR and both having typical aftermarket suspensions?

 

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On 2/6/2019 at 10:00 PM, turbogrill said:

Hi,

 

I definitely don't need to get involved in more sports/race cars but what about Porsche 944 race cars? Not a crime to dream.

 

I have heard they handle great and would be cool to race a Porsche.  Are they getting to old to work on?

 

How would the do compared to a S2000 with same PWR and both having typical aftermarket suspensions?

 

They seem to have a high VPI but I see alot of them racing. FWIW you can drop a small Chevy in one w/o much issue.  I would think you could find one much cheaper than an S2000. There is one here in the for sale section. 

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We run one, and are building our second one.

 

You can have fun with them in stock 8V NA form, but its going to be really hard to be in the top 25% unless you have a lot of experience with the car. 

 

The teams doing well with the 944 run the S2 engine.

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A used Porsche 944 (951 Turbo 87 - 89 would be the perfect candidate). Porsche has stopped making many repair parts for these cars, although one can find many of the parts on the Porsche web Sites. Below is a pic of one we ran at Mid-Ohio with consistent lap times of 1:24 - 1:25. If u start pushing the engine Stock Envelope when it comes to boost pressures anything over 15.5 LBS of pressure the engine wouldn't last but about 30 Laps! To rebuild a stock engine normally cost 10K - 15K depending  on the build.

Tks,

Ron...

 

P8190002.JPG

Edited by IFITLOOKSLIKEADUCKWTF
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I'm new to chump, so please forgive if this has been beaten to death... anyway, I see a fair amount of chatter on swapping motors in the 944.  Does it get a pass on using the highest valued model as the starting point?  Or are the 944, 944S, and 944S2 (not to mention the turbo variants) all different models?  Seems odd since the E30 318i and the 325is are clearly treated as the same model.

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39 minutes ago, Grufton said:

I'm new to chump, so please forgive if this has been beaten to death... anyway, I see a fair amount of chatter on swapping motors in the 944.  Does it get a pass on using the highest valued model as the starting point?  Or are the 944, 944S, and 944S2 (not to mention the turbo variants) all different models?  Seems odd since the E30 318i and the 325is are clearly treated as the same model.

 

Gufton Grufton Grufton,

They are assumed as different platforms. Sort of…

All 924’s use the 1988 924S .  I know you didn’t ask but I feel this platform is less advantaged than the 944 because of the 944’s heavy weight assessment when these are the same cars.  I know a guy with a Red 924 ITS car… that I would love to put an ecotech into but the numbers just don’t work the same as a 944.

Turbo’s are 951’s (or some other number 9something) not 944’s… so they get their own platform.  Due to the Mr-2’s all turbo’s are supposed to be dropped from the premium points shift rule.  (Rumor has some still get to use the weight of the turbo but the points of the non turbo… but that is just rumor)

The 8 valve 944’s are currently being looked at based on the 16 valve 2.5L 944S. 

The S2’s are somehow being viewed as their own platform.  I think this goes back to the logic that the original name for the 968 was going to be the 944S3… and the 968 is clearly something new and wonderful. 

None of this is given to the public… you have to read the forum a lot or play with the swap calculator a lot to draw these conclusions.  Given that none of this is public, I am likely wrong on all of it.

I personally think all the 944's and 924's should be stuffed into one bag turbos's and all.  Result new hot build: 1977 924.  Low race weight & epic high formula weight = equal stupid fast. 

Good luck, say hey to the nicer twin for me.

-Ben

PS. Please correct my misunderstanding of the swap math numbers

PSS. this might come across as Trolling...  well I want to Troll Grufton.  😈

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All the S2 motor's listed for sale on the intraweb are coming back at over $4K, so technically that swap would violate the $1,500 or less swap rule...

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4 hours ago, Racer7x said:

 

All the S2 motor's listed for sale on the intraweb are coming back at over $4K, so technically that swap would violate the $1,500 or less swap rule...

 

you could just use a fake ad or claim you bought a smashed car for $1000.

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1 hour ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

you could just use a fake ad or claim you bought a smashed car for $1000.

or just drop a 170hp (hehehehe) 350 in it

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Raced a 924S in Champcar (well, mostly the Canadian version of Champcar) for 3 years. Any car from the 944 platform is very capable and *WILL* last a long time if you avoid stupid modifications. For example, keep the stock brakes. If you find you need bigger brakes (i.e 944 Turbo brakes), the team probably needs driving lessons.

 

Ensure that your wheel bearings, and CV axles are very well maintained and changed/re-packed at least annually. 

 

An old, junkyard 944 motor will give you trouble. Sorry to say it, but a rebuilt engine is a very good idea to compete reliably.

 

Finally, the big problem with the 8V 944 is power. It is under powered for it's class. Basically, it's the smallest displacement motor in C-class. Yes, an S2 engine can be installed, but knowing these cars inside out, there is no way anyone could claim a 944 S2 engine swap will cost less than $1,500. Also, good luck having the transmission of an 8V engine hold together with an S2 engine installed. Now, there are ways to make a 944 more competitive... and that's for another day.

 

Bottom line, if the motor, wheel bearings, and axles are good and/or fresh. Strip it, cage it, race it... you will have fun.

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59 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

SAAB

Until a team other than RBank puts a Saab in victory lane, I’m holding off on that brand...

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On 4/15/2019 at 12:01 PM, PPo said:

Yes, an S2 engine can be installed, but knowing these cars inside out, there is no way anyone could claim a 944 S2 engine swap will cost less than $1,500.

 

Is the $1500 rule enforced?  

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Claiming your car as a 944 S2 is not the same as using the swap calculator.   that's how you would do it I think.

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On 4/16/2019 at 12:49 PM, QuaTTro said:

 

Is the $1500 rule enforced?  

I think it would take someone to file a value protest or alert tech ahead of time on an engine that is out of bounds from a cost perspective.

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On 4/16/2019 at 1:49 PM, QuaTTro said:

 

Is the $1500 rule enforced?  

It should be. And teams should be required to present valid (and not BS) documentation of costs to Tech. We all know that S2 engines aren't less than $1500. 

944 S2 engines are listed on eBay for $3-5k. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Racer7x said:

 

Heard said $1,500 swap rule will be going away or be increased...

 

 

I'm good with it if they go to an "actual" power number for the calculator vs. a pos "stock" published hp number for the incoming motor.  Should really be about the power going in vs. the cost of the motor.  That $5k S2 motor might make the same power as a $250 GM v6, and in the end they have the same amount of output power.

 

I would rather see an exclusion list of non swapable motors, like the ls whatevers, the K20 honda etc.

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1 hour ago, Racer7x said:

 

Heard said $1,500 swap rule will be going away or be increased...

Nice! 

I want to build a 7500 rpm 4.6 DOHC powered Fox-body!

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57 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

 Do it do it do it

 

 

 

I have a good running DOHC 4.6 for sale:ph34r:

I want a Teksid block 4.6 from a '96-'99 Cobra. Cast in Italy, the strongest blocks for the 4.6's other than the iron '03-'04 Cobras. 

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