Jump to content

Petition proposition- Flywheels?


Wittenauer Racing
 Share

Recommended Posts

Want some input before submitting since I'm newer around here. 

 

Petition- Add "aftermarket flywheel" to FPV list (10pts?)

 

Reason- OEM flywheels in racing - serviceable condition continue to get harder to come by for much of the field, most aftermarket options are lightened in some capacity or offer other benefits in durability (see UUC's single mass conversions for BMW's). 

 

Main discussion point I see- Material removal is free, so does aftermarket vs factory with material removal really matter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People will lose their mind.....

 

"Flywheels that match oem material and clutch disk size\count....0 points"

 

That would be my take. Keeps aluminum, multi disk, small diameter units where they belong. Allows reasonable part replacements. 

 

Do i need to pull out the math again showing power consumption to accelerate a 5 lbs heavier 12" clutch disk 3000 rpm in a 5 or 6 sec ramp rate time? Much less than you think....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

People will lose their mind.....

 

"Flywheels that match oem material and clutch disk size\count....0 points"

 

That would be my take. Keeps aluminum, multi disk, small diameter units where they belong. Allows reasonable part replacements. 

 

Do i need to pull out the math again showing power consumption to accelerate a 5 lbs heavier 12" clutch disk 3000 rpm in a 5 or 6 sec ramp rate time? Much less than you think....

Cool, so single mass conversions are cool as long as it's steel.

Edited by mindspin311
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was a rule petition suggestion...sorry i should have clarified. Remember i am not tech, just and instigator and advisor.

 

I would hope single mass would be, just to save the discomfort of not being able to run a more common\repairable kind of flywheel. 

 

If you want an official answer ask tech. Realistically i have never seen a trans pulled in tech to look in there....i think this is one of those be realistic and fair to the intent of the rules (cause no one will ever know) sort of things.

Edited by Black Magic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

@Black Magic I thought you were the heavy clutch proponent in earlier debates with @mender about this topic?

As far as I know, Champcar has no intention of limiting weight reduction anywhere, whether it be body, wheels, or flywheels.

 

2X at worst IMHO.

Edited by mender
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
19 minutes ago, oddcarnut said:

Single mass, steel and at least as heavy as stock flywheel otherwise it is a performance enhancement.

How do you make a single mass flywheel as heavy as a dual mass flywheel?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

How do you make a single mass flywheel as heavy as a dual mass flywheel?

 

You make it thick :)

 

All joking aside, on the cars I have seen with dual mass (Subaru comes to mind) the parts store replacements that are single mass are naturally pretty close to the same weight. 

 

Every champcar clutch I have seen out of a car followed a pretty linear fit between cost\complexity\bought too much and spectacular failure. The stock looking flywheels with stock to slightly higher clamp load\slightly better than oe quality clutch disk combo seems to do well. One of the most expensive ones I have seen sawed a gearbox\bellhousing in half.....

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

You make it thick :)

 

All joking aside, on the cars I have seen with dual mass (Subaru comes to mind) the parts store replacements that are single mass are naturally pretty close to the same weight. 

 

Every champcar clutch I have seen out of a car followed a pretty linear fit between cost\complexity\bought too much and spectacular failure. The stock looking flywheels with stock to slightly higher clamp load\slightly better than oe quality clutch disk combo seems to do well. One of the most expensive ones I have seen sawed a gearbox\bellhousing in half.....

 

So I probably shouldn't go this route on my $500 clunker, then?

image.thumb.png.168ed0028983fded53b3aed80ec20e69.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mender said:

If you do use an aluminum flywheel make sure you use a steel shim/spacer under the bolt heads to reduce cold flowing of the aluminum and the resulting loose flywheel bolts and catastrophic failure, and use ARP bolts with at least blue locktite.

Image result for aluminum flywheel steel shim

 

edit...lol....missed the blue loctite part......very key :)

Edited by atxe30
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, mender said:

If you do use an aluminum flywheel make sure you use a steel shim/spacer under the bolt heads to reduce cold flowing of the aluminum and the resulting loose flywheel bolts and catastrophic failure, and use ARP bolts with at least blue locktite.

Image result for aluminum flywheel steel shim

 

And replace the bolts regularly.  Even steel flywheels.  Fatigue failed flywheel bolts knocked us out of Nelson Ledges last year.  They had been re-used 1 too many times.

 

 

IMG_20180630_211121454.jpg

  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You haven't lived until you install a rotary flywheel. Single nut 54 mm, 450 ft lbs torque spec. My technique is to use a 3/4 breaker bar and a jack handle. Have another person with another jack handle pulling the opposite direction and put all of your weight on it. 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mhr650 said:

You haven't lived until you install a rotary flywheel. Single nut 54 mm, 450 ft lbs torque spec. My technique is to use a 3/4 breaker bar and a jack handle. Have another person with another jack handle pulling the opposite direction and put all of your weight on it. 

Sounds just like an aircooled VW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/15/2019 at 3:37 PM, mcoppola said:

How do you make a single mass flywheel as heavy as a dual mass flywheel?

That aftermarket single mass conversion I put on my car wasn't any lighter than the stock dual mass it replaced, not what I was expecting, but I weighed them myself. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
18 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

That aftermarket single mass conversion I put on my car wasn't any lighter than the stock dual mass it replaced, not what I was expecting, but I weighed them myself. 

Bummer. I would hope to get a weigh loss benefit from going to single vs dual mass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mcoppola said:

Bummer. I would hope to get a weigh loss benefit from going to single vs dual mass.

Most replacements have to make up the rearward placement of the dual mass flywheel/clutch by having a flywheel that is 2-3x thicker than a typical OEM single mass.

Image result for dual mass flywheel

 

Image result for bmw  m20 flywheel

Edited by mender
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...