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Anyone have Aero questions?


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Fellow racers. Johnny c is the majority of my real name I'm the spokesmen and janitor for Nine Lives Racing (9livesracing.com). An aerodynamic company that sells race car wings and aero consultations (aka we scan your car and try to find the nicest way to explain your mess). as a courtesy, we (nine lives) are offering to answer basic questions that obtain to aerodynamics. 

 

So just a background of who we are. (use this information to validate our answers. 

Personally, I started in motorsports in 2006  and graduated to professional motorsports in 2012 working with PFC brakes. since 2012 I have stayed in professional motorsports working for OG racing and then in 2018 I started Nine lives where we still continue consultations for all teams but professional ones included. 

race Resue

Directly consulted or was apart of a team that has won

- 2 24hour of Daytona overall wins, (01 chip Ganassi cars) 

- 2012 NASCAR championship (joe gibs racing) 

- Almost won lemans (delta wing)

- Overall lap record at Daytona road course (Mazda dpi #77)  

and i'm .2 seconds away from obtaining the Miata lap record at Road Atlanta in my own car. 

 

  

01-chip-ganassi-racing-riley-dp-ford-langzea1oepsdfjphspp0du.jpg    

 

Partners in crime that work at or with Nine lives racing include. 

Rob Lindsey. famed car builder that directly or indirectly had a hand in some form of the design with....

 

Riley Mark XXII

Elan Dpo2 

Elan Np01 

Delta wing

Panoz PWC cars. 

riley.jpgarticle_1_Main_Image_jpg_677x1000_q100.j

NP01_rivard.jpg?ssl=1gzea1oepsdfjphspp0du.jpg

panoz_lede-2.jpeg?w=660

 

That's us in a nutshell with basic pictures. Hit us with your aero questions. 

 

 

 

HOODIE LOGO JPG.jpg

Edited by @NineLivesJohnny
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Disclaimer: I have no formal aerodynamics training and most of this info I am going to share I have just picked up on the side for fun. Feel free to critique anything I am about to say.   I

one more before i hit the road.  not quite.  The air being directed over the top of the car does add downforce. It's not the temp to blame, it's the speed. So to make downforce, the general

Put a hole in the top of the fender above your control arm/spindle/whatever. Attach a rod to the top of your control arm that is long enough to protrude above the fender at full droop. Mark the rod at

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Aerodynamically where do we go next?

 

Home made diffuser?  Side skirts?  Both?

 

Have a bottom mount single element wing that will be replacing the Lexan rear lip.

 

We are power limited, and maximizing cornering speed has so far proven the only way to be fast.  The car is relatively stable now, but I know we're leaving grip on the table.  Will skirts and a diffuser held reduce drag and increase total downforce enough to be worth the time investment?

 

Thanks.

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23 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

Aerodynamically where do we go next?

 

Home made diffuser?  Side skirts?  Both?

 

Have a bottom mount single element wing that will be replacing the Lexan rear lip.

 

We are power limited, and maximizing cornering speed has so far proven the only way to be fast.  The car is relatively stable now, but I know we're leaving grip on the table.  Will skirts and a diffuser held reduce drag and increase total downforce enough to be worth the time investment?

 

Thanks.

FB_IMG_1550626321229.jpg

That looks a lot like the aero on my car with the exception of the splitter.

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Adding downforce while limiting drag. We all want huge wings and giant splitters, but those come at a cost, drag. As budget racers, how can we get an idea of how much drag we're adding? Most reputable wings will come with that data, but what about a homemade plywood splitter?

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Similarly to what others have asked.

 

Most of these cars are speeds less than 100mph for most turns, 130mph top straight line speed.  200WHP or less.  Based on this, what provides more gain?  Making the the car more slippery in air with air dams and flat bottoms or adding splitters, wings & diffusers?

 

Pretty generous of you to offer this advice.  We're all basing our efforts on guesses and "well, it looks faster".

 

 

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50 minutes ago, ablesnead said:

In have a general question ....Hot air moves faster and is less dense ....so why do people think venting air over the hood helps down force...isn't the opposite true ?

I can answer that one: venting the air through the hood (I assume that you mean from the rad from the hot air reference) adds downforce by changing the position and speed of the air coming into the radiator. Changing the location and speed requires force, and the car provides that force.

 

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so the car gets forced down as the air gets forced up.

Edited by mender
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Good luck, sounds like a fun group to work with. I have wanted to get some of my race engineering geeks (engineer) friends together to do something but none of us have really jumped at it. 

 

I am doing more tech videos for the series, and when we get around to aero (we have a way to go)  i may bring you in to give some pointers. Aero is my least knowledgeable area. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Oopph.  We had that with the rotary.  It was still possible to have a fast 1 lap pace, but traffic really killed laptimes!

 

I feel your pain.

 

Yep, we've got similar P/W of a well setup 1.8 Miata.  It'll turn a pretty decent lap, especially if we can get a tow from something fast enough not to turn itself into a rolling road block in the twisty bits.

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So we ran our first race (no aero) at road Atlanta and then just finished our second race at road Atlanta (with nine lives racing wing, splitter, and air dam). We have the same size tire with a wheel 1 inch wider and are making slightly more power but what is amazing is the amount of speed we are carrying more in the corners. In a couple turns we are carrying over 10mph more when comparing fast lap to fast lap. 1.6 miata FYI. 

E719CF17-8EDF-4D02-8F91-E031E127D0A8.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, cowboys647 said:

So we ran our first race (no aero) at road Atlanta and then just finished our second race at road Atlanta (with nine lives racing wing, splitter, and air dam). We have the same size tire with a wheel 1 inch wider and are making slightly more power but what is amazing is the amount of speed we are carrying more in the corners. In a couple turns we are carrying over 10mph more when comparing fast lap to fast lap. 1.6 miata FYI. 

E719CF17-8EDF-4D02-8F91-E031E127D0A8.jpeg

Thats awesome, what car, and roughly what sort of HP are you making?

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1 minute ago, cowboys647 said:

It’s a 90 1.6 miata. We are probably putting down 100 whp on a good day but she’s never been dyno’d. 

What was the overall improvement in laptime? 4s it looks like?

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Thank you John for starting the Post nice product.

I add this so we would have some thing to fall back on for points and sizing

from the rule book

• Aerodynamic Devices o Spoiler / Wing / Splitter / Diffuser / Aero Pan / Air Dam / Side Skirts: 10 pts/ea •

Aerodynamic devices not to exceed width of bodywork (fenders, bumpers, doors) when viewed from above. Note: Side mirrors are not included in bodywork width. •

Maximum wing height 12” above roof • Maximum wing dropback 12” behind car • Maximum splitter reach 12” in front of car

I think some kind of list would help 

 

your wing placement and angle

Top mount or bottom mount why??

splitter  yes or no  and to offset wing down force balance car

and do you have discount for Champ?

We run a Audi TT AWD any thoughts on wing and splitter on that car 

This what we ran last year did move the wing to the back

Bob Mann

2wbyqnd.jpg

fjoi1e.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by DRVOLKS
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