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Anyone have Aero questions?


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12 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

the link above quoted $350 just for the supports the wing was $275 we don't have that in our engine. 

 

You can build your own supports easily enough and I bet if you price out the foam, glue, resin, fiberglass, sandpaper, and time required to make a wing from scratch - which will never work as well or be as durable as what you'll get from NLR - that $275 is going to seem like the bargain of the century.

 

FWIW, we don't have that kind of money (or any money, really) in our engine, either. 

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Disclaimer: I have no formal aerodynamics training and most of this info I am going to share I have just picked up on the side for fun. Feel free to critique anything I am about to say.   I

one more before i hit the road.  not quite.  The air being directed over the top of the car does add downforce. It's not the temp to blame, it's the speed. So to make downforce, the general

Put a hole in the top of the fender above your control arm/spindle/whatever. Attach a rod to the top of your control arm that is long enough to protrude above the fender at full droop. Mark the rod at

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6 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Get rid of mirrors.  Cover those front tires if they aren't already (tough to see from pics). Get rid of hood scoop thingy.  Remove front plate.

 

More airdam.  

 

Get a wing.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

Mirrors will be easy. 

 

Tires: are you talking about flaring the fenders, or making the air dam cover more of the face of the tire or both?  The car still needs a good bit of negative camber, but that would still leave the lower face of the tire exposed. 

 

Hood scoop will be a hard one to get rid of because it looks totally awesome.

 

More airdam and a wing is kinda what I thought would be the "low hanging fruit". Thanks for your assessment!

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A spinning tire makes a bunch of disturbed air.  If you can get the air to go around the tire, it's a bit better.  Basically, even a piece of flat material in front of the tire is better than nothing.

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Hadn't thought of that, but makes perfect sense. I had to put 20mm spacers on the front just to get 225's to clear the struts... So that probably isn't helping. Thanks!

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15 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

A spinning tire makes a bunch of disturbed air.  If you can get the air to go around the tire, it's a bit better.  Basically, even a piece of flat material in front of the tire is better than nothing.

we puled our front lower fenders out about an inch or so...

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17 hours ago, gavro said:

 

You can build your own supports easily enough and I bet if you price out the foam, glue, resin, fiberglass, sandpaper, and time required to make a wing from scratch - which will never work as well or be as durable as what you'll get from NLR - that $275 is going to seem like the bargain of the century.

 

FWIW, we don't have that kind of money (or any money, really) in our engine, either. 

One our teammates is an aerospace engineer w/ a 3d printer. I was planning on him printing the inner'ds and I'd wrap it in very thin sheet metal, like roof lashing, of course it'd be foam filled or something. 

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20 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

That's what we did.  Bought just the wing with the adjustable mounts, not welded, did that ourselves, made our own uprights and end plates to save a bit of money.  Very satisfied!



We do our best to champion the DIY-ers with Built it yourself kits, supply materials and parts for all various levels of fabricators. We are DIY people, At the end of the day we need to anser the question "does this make sense to buy". If it doesn't, then who are we trying to help? Guys that want to start a wing project without our (free) help, I wish them luck.  Speaking as an experienced fabricator you'll easily spend more in tools to complete the job (not counting materials) than buying one of our wings.
One major cost that a lot of people overlook when taking on a project like a wing is testing.
Can you complete a wing project for under $500? i'll say sure. 
 Will it be as well tested as ours? Definitely not. 
From day one (opened in 2018)  we've had a engineer at a CFD desk doing constant testing.  Every weekend we are out driving and verifying what hes come up with. Speaking as a racer  Aerodynamics is by far the most humbling thing I've ever been apart of. Every time I say "yes that's going to work" i'm proven wrong.  if you want examples please ask i'll be happy to share shortcomings. If you notice in this thread it's never yes/no. it's 'Maybe' and 'shouldn't work'. If the aerodynamics "expert" on your team and hes saying "YES" then you really should be verifying his work. Our aerodynamics engineer has been building racing cars since 2006. his cars raced and won in the daytona24 / Le Mans. We still verify his work, we know he's good because he's interested in our findings.
Mortal of the story we are here to help racers of all levels because we are racers.    

Edited by @NineLivesJohnny
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18 hours ago, TiredBirds said:

the link above quoted $350 just for the supports the wing was $275 we don't have that in our engine. 

Those are Welded, deburred, and  powdercoated  aka fancy stuff. ;)

We have universal uber tall uprights you can cut yourself for under $190 https://9livesracing.com/products/copy-of-318ti-mounts-pylons-only?_pos=4&_sid=52400aeb3&_ss=r
 

Nine_Lives_DIY_universal_Pylons_1024x1024@2x[1].jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

A heads up to all. I asked the help desk how many points for an old school front spoiler like pictured , this is the reply.

 

Reply byJay Mauney»about 20 hours ago

Front air dam is ten points

From the splitter is 10 point

A 45 degree has the aero function of both the splitter and air dam so it is 20 points

Jay Mauney
National Tech Director
ChampCar Endurance Series
561 240 9346

 

This is not anywhere in the rules I could find.

Z_12-S.jpg

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22 minutes ago, gundy said:

A heads up to all. I asked the help desk how many points for an old school front spoiler like pictured , this is the reply.

 

Reply byJay Mauney»about 20 hours ago

Front air dam is ten points

From the splitter is 10 point

A 45 degree has the aero function of both the splitter and air dam so it is 20 points

Z_12-S.jpg

So much for the 45deg air damn loop hole

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9 minutes ago, mender said:

So I assume you can add a splitter for no extra charge...

I assume but much crazier things have happened in the KB. Splitter is also nice because you are also paying for flat bottom to the front axle center line. I wonder angle my splitter can sag to before I start paying vertical points 10deg 15deg?

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10 minutes ago, morganf said:

I assume but much crazier things have happened in the KB. Splitter is also nice because you are also paying for flat bottom to the front axle center line. I wonder angle my splitter can sag to before I start paying vertical points 10deg 15deg?

That was the answer I was hoping for instead of what I got. I guess it is all in the wording and I did it wrong.

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15 minutes ago, morganf said:

I assume but much crazier things have happened in the KB. Splitter is also nice because you are also paying for flat bottom to the front axle center line. I wonder angle my splitter can sag to before I start paying vertical points 10deg 15deg?

Thought of this after I hit submit.  By this interpretation if an air dam bottom is 1" forward of the top then it is in effect a spliter also and  assessed 20 pts.. 

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6 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

Why people want to ruin perfectly balanced cars by fitting boat anchors to them I'll never understand.  😜

with aluminum heads and intake it won't weigh much more. 240z 150 points. lots of room to work with there....LOTS    But i like doing things the hard way if this car gets balled up...I'm going with a 71-74 B-body Mopar. again 150 points.... 

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