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MoparBoyy

How not to drive at Rd. Atlanta

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I saw this posted somewhere else and its scary to think the driver of this car thinks 'there is nothing i could have done'  

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4 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

I saw this posted somewhere else and its scary to think the driver of this car thinks 'there is nothing i could have done'  

 

Got that sucks for the Acura.... 

 

Reminds me of all the pictures you see of cars hitting the one tree in a field.....

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There's always something you could have done.  ALWAYS.  It's easy to armchair quarterback, so I will.  It looks like the driver was carrying a lot of speed into the esses.  He got off the gas early, but waited too long to brake.  I'm guessing he thought the car would end up on one side of the track or the other, but it didn't work out.

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Brakes are a magical thing that help in these scenarios.  Driver obviously doesn't believe in magic.  

Edited by Snake
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He should have braked harder and chose a side.  50-50 but by not choosing, he almost guaranteed a collision.  The Acura maybe could have got on the brakes to become more stationary.  Easy to arm chair QB these situations, but also most of us have been in them and survived without a collision.  I personally have been in these sorts of scenarios at least once a season.

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It's a funny thing, the Acura driver did everything right to keep the car on the pavement and also managed to get it facing the correct way (albeit in the middle of the track, though no choice there). The driver who hit him is completely at fault for that one!

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Yeah. It is hard to imagine what this guy would have done if it had been a blind corner and he had another car beside him. What he had here was a BEST case scenario.  The turn wasn’t blind.  He could readily see the car ahead of him and its spin.  No one was beside him.  He had what was probably a superior car (and this should probably be able to brake much more stoutly than the Acura).  He should have been easily able to fully stop his car if he needed to given the distance between them.  Can’t help but wonder if he had his eyes 50 feet in front of the bumper and didn’t see the spin developing.  

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2 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

didn’t see the spin developing.  

To me it sounded like he was off throttle pretty early in the video.  If so, he probably saw it pretty early.  Not sure when he hit the brakes, but it got very urgent (tire squeal) just before impact.  He's also turning and going downhill, so that makes braking hard a bit more difficult.  

 

Maybe he didn't see it in time, maybe he was slow to react.  Whatever the case, I believe the crash was avoidable.  But if he saw it in time and reacted in time both cars would have given up a slow lap and had many more opportunities to crash that day.

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Quote from OP: "Immediately after my personal best lap this happened. I tried to avoid to the left side, upon seeing the nose start to point in that direction I tried to go to the right, the car snapped back in front of me."

 

Seems like he forgot about the middle pedal until the very end...

Edited by cmi11er
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All pretty harsh, Love that section of track...

 

Yeah a little fixation combined with expectation the car would be clear before the smoke clears, cutting left is difficult @ best while fighting physics, right did not look like a great option till way late, brakes a bit earlier could have reduced impact, definitely not enough agriculture for either.

 

This is where our CCCC (crappy car control clinic) @ Crash a Rama helps train target fixation vs expectations without the pain of loosing a good car when it all goes wrong

See me fail the lesson @ Boat2 vid posted somewhere here.

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35 minutes ago, cmi11er said:

Quote from OP: "Immediately after my personal best lap this happened. I tried to avoid to the left side, upon seeing the nose start to point in that direction I tried to go to the right, the car snapped back in front of me."

 

Seems like he forgot about the middle pedal until the very end...

It might just be me, but it sure looked like he never left the racing line. I didn't see him go left or try to go right aside from touching both curbings. 

He hit that Acura pretty hard and it's luck that somebody wasn't hurt. It's almost as if he target fixated and just couldn't miss it. 

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That reminded me of this one from RA a few years ago. Same type of target fixation, though in my video the trailing driver at least braked.

 

 

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3 hours ago, LAMR2 said:

That reminded me of this one from RA a few years ago. Same type of target fixation, though in my video the trailing driver at least braked.

 

 

Bro what happened to your lights??? It looks like your trying to run from the cops. I didnt see them till after you hit the car. You guys are truly brave souls.

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16 hours ago, LAMR2 said:

That reminded me of this one from RA a few years ago. Same type of target fixation, though in my video the trailing driver at least braked.

 

🤣🤣 SIX seconds between lead car's brake lights and impact.

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yeah, he was just cruising and waiting to see what the spinning car was going to do.  Further proof that unless you're driving both cars, you never know what the other car will do next.

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1 hour ago, tommytipover said:

 

🤣🤣 SIX seconds between lead car's brake lights and impact.

But only about a second or so between the leading car's brakes, and the camera car getting on the brakes as well. 

 

What he should have done is release the brakes enough to steer around then brake again to stop before getting into the other cars.

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19 hours ago, Snorman said:

It might just be me, but it sure looked like he never left the racing line. I didn't see him go left or try to go right aside from touching both curbings. 

He hit that Acura pretty hard and it's luck that somebody wasn't hurt. It's almost as if he target fixated and just couldn't miss it. 

A racing incident.

 

The Acura driver kept the car off the walls and had it ready to get back to speed. Ideal situation when no other cars are around, which he may have thought at the time; the following car was quite a ways back at the start of the video. A second consequence is that the Acura was in the best orientation to take a hit. Had he locked up the brakes he might have ended up sideways across the track and gotten t-boned, so I think he made the right moves.

 

Putting myself into the following car's helmet, I also saw the "escape" to the left open up early but then the Acura continuing the spin with what looked like a closing off of the left, then it opening up again but too late to react. I think target fixation may have been part of the issue but I'm leaning more towards not being willing to give back the time he made on the last lap. 

 

I've seen this before, when it takes too long to switch from full race mode to full survival mode. The driver is running hard and making time and tries to minimize the time lost before clearing the incident. Braking early and hard for a spinning car should be very close to the top of the list, because that will give the largest safety margin while retaining the highest possible speed if the other car clears the racing line early. Also gives any following cars an early warning from the brake lights.

Edited by mender
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1 minute ago, mender said:

But only about a second or so between the leading car's brakes, and the camera car getting on the brakes as well. 

This

 

1 minute ago, mender said:

What he should have done is release the brakes enough to steer around then brake again to stop before getting into the other cars.

Deceptive on video, a tough fun piece of track, fast downhill esses that, at speed, are on edge of adhesion.

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1 minute ago, Team Infiniti said:

This

 

Deceptive on video, a tough fun piece of track, fast downhill esses that, at speed, are on edge of adhesion.

And apparently in the rain.

 

I agree, that's a tricky place as witnessed on the video but trail braking and turning are supposed to be part of the drivers' toolkit. Just gotta remember that it's there.

 

Threads like this are great for doing some mental programming. I try to run the video several times and mentally practice what the right moves would have been for both cars so I don't have as much thinking to do if/when I'm in that situation. Only takes a couple of minutes and could save a race or more.  

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Before the left curbing there was opportunity to go straight onto the grass on left but the other guy was still spinning thus the decision was delayed.

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On 3/13/2019 at 9:06 AM, Team Infiniti said:

Before the left curbing there was opportunity to go straight onto the grass on left but the other guy was still spinning thus the decision was delayed.

Agree, that's what I meant by escape: a straight pass through the grass on the left. 

 

A driver really has to commit early to that one as there's no going back once out there, and the speed through will be high as well. A serious consideration if the Acura driver didn't complete the spin but instead rolled off the track to the left in an attempt to clear the racing line.

 

I learned fairly early on that spin and continue worked out for me. The one time it didn't was captured on video at Portland. :)

Edited by mender
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22 hours ago, cmi11er said:

Quote from OP: "Immediately after my personal best lap this happened. I tried to avoid to the left side, upon seeing the nose start to point in that direction I tried to go to the right, the car snapped back in front of me."

 

Seems like he forgot about the middle pedal until the very end...

 

21 hours ago, Snorman said:

It might just be me, but it sure looked like he never left the racing line. I didn't see him go left or try to go right aside from touching both curbings. 

He hit that Acura pretty hard and it's luck that somebody wasn't hurt. It's almost as if he target fixated and just couldn't miss it. 

 

Target fixation is a hell of a drug.

 

He didn't try to left of right, he fixated, and the car went where the eyes go.  He/she fixated, and now they're trying to justify the mistake.

 

Its something the beat into your skull during any good performance motorcycle course.  Always look for a way out.

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2 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

He didn't try to left of right, he fixated, and the car went where the eyes go.  He/she fixated, and now they're trying to justify the mistake.

If you look carefully at 0:11, you can see that he considered going left as he straightened slightly, then changed when he saw that the Acura was sliding that direction. He was actively trying to avoid the Acura but ran out of room and time.

 

"Quote from OP: "Immediately after my personal best lap this happened. I tried to avoid to the left side, upon seeing the nose start to point in that direction I tried to go to the right, the car snapped back in front of me."

 

That is what I see in the video. Had he immediately applied the brakes hard at the start of the spin, he might have had time to be able to avoid the other car.

Edited by mender
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I guess owner of the video is also a ChampCar driver.  i'd hate to see what would have happened when you add all of us to that situation.

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