jcorbs Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Hi Folks. Newbie question. Must all stops be a minimum of 5 minutes, irrespective of whether your refuel or not? The last sentence of 8.2.4 "Pit stops where fuel is not added to the car shall not be considered a timed pit stop" is a little confusing. Sorry, I tried searching, but nothing seem to come up. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, jcorbs said: Hi Folks. Newbie question. Must all stops be a minimum of 5 minutes, irrespective of whether your refuel or not? The last sentence of 8.2.4 "Pit stops where fuel is not added to the car shall not be considered a timed pit stop" is a little confusing. Sorry, I tried searching, but nothing seem to come up. Thanks Welcome!~ All pit stops are timed, if you did not remove your fuel cap there is no minimum time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcorbs Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Awesome, that was my understanding. Thank you. I guess the trick is whether we can change drivers in under 5 minutes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) You will eventually. Or if you practice driver changes. Honestly, for the first race, that would be low on my list of concerns. At least on the Saturday race. Best of luck and have fun. Edited March 15, 2019 by TBone 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitsbain Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 I've seen fuel and driver at Lemons, in under 2 minutes. If it was just driver I think those guys could do it in under 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted March 15, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Fitsbain said: I've seen fuel and driver at Lemons, in under 2 minutes. If it was just driver I think those guys could do it in under 1. Our WRL pit stops were driver, 1 tire, and fuel in 38 seconds. It was expensive, difficult, and required a large crew. Open pitting isn't really a good thing for entry level budget racing IMO. Edited March 15, 2019 by red0 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aero Man Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Talk to the SCCA enduro guys who can do hyper fast pit stops. With 5 guys over the wall at once, a car did fuel, a driver, and 2 tires in a minute and a half. There was no touching the car or driver changes allowed when fuel was over the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer28173 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) To recap the info provided and underscore the best advice: Five minute minimum if you take fuel. No minimum if you come in to pull a fender off a tire or change an exhausted driver. When you stop at the pit out stop sign, you just say “no fuel” and they release you without waiting for the timer to expire. All that being said, a wise team doing their first race just ignores all of that and takes whatever time is required. Check the oil. Look at the tires to see if they are wearing funny. Make sure the lugs are torqued. On certain cars, check the wheel bearing tightness. Look for fluids dripping under the car. Etc. etc. So many new teams blow their cars up in the first race because they think they are racing and rush the stops. The first race is to learn where your car needs attention (I.e. it burns a lot of oil, or it keeps backing out the nut on the bearings), not to really race. It is a high intensity test day that happens to occur while other people are racing. If you adopt that philosophy, you will almost assuredly finish much higher than if you try to be in the race. You will run in lower positions in the first half of the race, but will run much longer in the race and that is the key to endurance racing. And you will be a lot happier too. Too many first time teams blow up, break, or wreck before all of the drivers get a stint because they are trying too hard. Make your sole objective “to still be running at the checker” and you will have a much better chance of the whole team having some fun. Once you have finished a race, THEN start worrying about your pit times. Welcome to Champ! Edited March 17, 2019 by Racer28173 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Coan-Burningham Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 On 3/15/2019 at 7:35 AM, red0 said: Our WRL pit stops were driver, 1 tire, and fuel in 38 seconds. How did you manage to get the fuel in, get the cap on, then change a tire in 38 seconds? That's a lot to get done in series like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Burningham said: How did you manage to get the fuel in, get the cap on, then change a tire in 38 seconds? That's a lot to get done in series like that. Yeah, I could see driver change and fuel in that time, but you can't change a tire while fueling. Not sure how you could jack the car up, change the tire and drop the car, and go in much less than 20 seconds. So that means fueling was ~18-22 seconds? Call me skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, Burningham said: How did you manage to get the fuel in, get the cap on, then change a tire in 38 seconds? That's a lot to get done in series like that. Andrew is known to exaggerate from time to time... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 We used to have the car stopped for under 2 minutes, not every stop, but it did happen on multiple occasions. No one touches the car while the fuel cap is off, and the cap does not come off until the driver is out. Nothing staged in pit lane before the car comes to a stop. Driver out while the jack goes under and lug nuts start coming off. Fuel cap off, 13 gallons goes in (via funnel). Driver uses this time to take off helmet & gloves. Cap on, driver in, driver gets belted while two tires are changed. Exiting driver helps strap in entering driver. 2 fuelers, 1 fire man, 1 jack, 2 tire changers. Fuelers help buckle in the driver when they were done. Tire change was usually done before the driver had the window net up. Just like the directions for getting to Carnegie Hall - Practice man, practice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted March 21, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 11 hours ago, Burningham said: How did you manage to get the fuel in, get the cap on, then change a tire in 38 seconds? That's a lot to get done in series like that. Not easily, and not cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zack_280 Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, red0 said: Not easily, and not cheaply. Air jacks and this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdog Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, red0 said: Not easily, and not cheaply. Not easy and not cheap is how my brother describes his first marriage. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted March 21, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, enginerd said: Andrew is known to exaggerate from time to time... I'm talking about the time from the car stopped to starting, not the time in pit lane. If the speed limit in the pits is 30MPH that is not a variable. 2 jugs of fuel, and a tire change.....and the driver still has time to finish the belts as they are driving to the end of pit lane. Even with having to grab a 3rd jug some times we were consistently under a minute. You don't beat cars that are 6 seconds a lap faster than you by having slow pit stops. Edited March 21, 2019 by red0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted March 21, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, zack_280 said: Air jacks and this? I can't give away our secrets. Edited March 21, 2019 by red0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, red0 said: I'm talking about the time from the car stopped to starting, not the time in pit lane. If the speed limit in the pits is 30MPH that is not a variable. 2 jugs of fuel, and a tire change.....and the driver still has time to finish the belts as they are driving to the end of pit lane. Even with having to grab a 3rd jug some times we were consistently under a minute. You don't beat cars that are 6 seconds a lap faster than you by having slow pit stops. In the several events I where I was in your pit crew, we weren’t this fast. You must have borrowed one of the Sahlen’s air guns and found a NASCAR tire guy to replace me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 12 hours ago, MMiskoe said: We used to have the car stopped for under 2 minutes, not every stop, but it did happen on multiple occasions. No one touches the car while the fuel cap is off, and the cap does not come off until the driver is out. Nothing staged in pit lane before the car comes to a stop. Driver out while the jack goes under and lug nuts start coming off. Fuel cap off, 13 gallons goes in (via funnel). Driver uses this time to take off helmet & gloves. Cap on, driver in, driver gets belted while two tires are changed. Exiting driver helps strap in entering driver. 2 fuelers, 1 fire man, 1 jack, 2 tire changers. Fuelers help buckle in the driver when they were done. Tire change was usually done before the driver had the window net up. Just like the directions for getting to Carnegie Hall - Practice man, practice. How is this any faster than doing the driver swap while fueling? So the driver is out and nothing is happening while the car is being fueled. And there is no way you're going to get the car jacked and lug nuts off before the fueler/fire bottle guys are fueling the car...that literally takes less than 15 seconds to hop the wall, drop the drip pan, take off the cap and start fueling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Snorman said: How is this any faster than doing the driver swap while fueling? So the driver is out and nothing is happening while the car is being fueled. And there is no way you're going to get the car jacked and lug nuts off before the fueler/fire bottle guys are fueling the car...that literally takes less than 15 seconds to hop the wall, drop the drip pan, take off the cap and start fueling. It’s probably slower but safer for the driver. Edited March 21, 2019 by enginerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mender Posted March 21, 2019 Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 We timed everyone when practicing our "on fire"' driver exit; kill switch, pretend to pull the fire handle, drop the net, undo the belts and open the door. I was quickest at just over 10 seconds, average was 15 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted March 21, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, enginerd said: In the several events I where I was in your pit crew, we weren’t this fast. You must have borrowed one of the Sahlen’s air guns and found a NASCAR tire guy to replace me! At some races we had better equipment than others, I certainly can't afford the fast stuff so we borrowed it when we could. I'm certainly not going to get into any of that specialty equipment here. Sahlens stops were cool as hell and they had some wicked nice stuff for the WRL stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Snorman said: How is this any faster than doing the driver swap while fueling? So the driver is out and nothing is happening while the car is being fueled. And there is no way you're going to get the car jacked and lug nuts off before the fueler/fire bottle guys are fueling the car...that literally takes less than 15 seconds to hop the wall, drop the drip pan, take off the cap and start fueling. Rules required that the fuel cap can't come off until the driver is OUT of the car. Also, once the cap was off, no one touched the car until the cap went back on. I think you'll find more sanctioning bodies for non-pro racing work this way than what Chaump allows with driver in/out while doing fuel. Penalties for spilled fuel, but no minimum time stopped. Even did one race with no speed limit in pit lane - no way to enforce it so they told us at the driver's meeting "be reasonable". I was well into 4th before pit out that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jab31169 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 After racing in a series without a min pit stop, i get the attraction to it. I also understand why champ has it in the rules and i think it has a little to with safety and a little to do with competition. It keeps the new teams from getting totally destroyed in the pits. We had fuel in the car and driver swaps done in under 2 mins with the new rule set in the other league easy. But i remember when we first showed up to chump and couldn't figure how to get it all done in under 7 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer28173 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 10 hours ago, Jab31169 said: After racing in a series without a min pit stop, i get the attraction to it. I also understand why champ has it in the rules and i think it has a little to with safety and a little to do with competition. It keeps the new teams from getting totally destroyed in the pits. We had fuel in the car and driver swaps done in under 2 mins with the new rule set in the other league easy. But i remember when we first showed up to chump and couldn't figure how to get it all done in under 7 mins. I imagine a 3rd reason Champ does it the way they do is it probably makes their liability insurance MUCH cheaper (which lowers the cost of entry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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