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LuckyKid

PartsBadger - Miata #630

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I've been informed that we do not in fact have a square top manifold on our engine.   We assumed we did, but the square top manifold apparently only came on the 2001+ VVT Motors.  I was mistaken due to the subtlety on their appearance.  I will be updating the build page accordingly. 

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Was there an official ruling on the use of NB versus NA tophats (both with respect to use with Bilsteins and use with Penskes)?  

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24 minutes ago, pjt said:

Was there an official ruling on the use of NB versus NA tophats (both with respect to use with Bilsteins and use with Penskes)?  

Penskes with NB hats and coilovers = 40pts total.

 

I assume it's 80pts for NB hats with Bilsteins and coilovers, but I don't know for sure 

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Is there an official source for this?  I don't see any reason the NBs should be free on the Penskes and not the Bilsteins.  (Although, to be clear, I think they should be free on both.)

Edited by pjt

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The NB is more points for a reason.  Cut and weld like the rest of us.  This isn't a series where every car is perfect...

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That's not what's claimed above.  Hence, asking for clarification (see, '"Penskes with NB hats and coilovers = 40pts total.").

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Sorry, I didn't intend to end up forking this into two separate threads.

 

Let's try and move this discussion into the SM discussion thread at 

 rather than this build thread.

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Build Notes for Road Atlanta:

 

Radiator Ducting:  Added real modular radiator ducting.  We've consistently been battling heat issues so we added a sealed ducting channel mounted between the frame rails and core support which is then connected to the airdam with tape.  In the event of an incident we can replace the airdam/splitter more easily this way.   This seemed to work well but track temps were too low to represent long term performance.

 

Aero:  

 

Mini-splitters - We've added part of the package tray to act as a gurney flap and splitter in front of the rear tires.  We have no notes other than they got filled with snow.

 

Flat Floor - We've added a complete flat floor.  We split the car into three sections - Driver, Center, and Pax.  Then we have a forward area that connects the splitter to the flat floor.  a middle section that is about 48" long, then a rear section that is over 60" long and also is the diffuser.   The middle sections are 0.063  6061-T6.  The sides were 1/4" alumalite.   In the center middle section we added two NACA ducts, one for the transmission and one for the diff.  We also wrapped our exhaust to hope to keep heat down.    

 

After a few sessions we could feel the tunnel getting abnormally hot and although the diff temperatures were ok, they had not stabilized.  We ended up removing the middle center section which covers the trans and diff.  Temperature of the diff fell ~10 degrees compared to engine oil temp.

 

Overall it was a cold race and test, so we didn't get the testing we wanted.  We will continue to test vents to keep everything cool.  Possibly even relocate the exhaust.

 

Extraction Hood - Data is overwhelming that an extraction hood should reduce our drag and increase our downforce.  We ended up putting the stock hood back on to push more air through the transmission tunnel and to resolve stability issues we seemed to be having.   More testing is needed.

 

80sqin Windows - We added a-pillar windows per the rules.  They are too small to notice an impact.

 

Moved the Wing Forward - We wanted more front aero bias so we moved the wing about 10" forward, but then moved it back another 4-6" in testing as more wing seemed to be needed and we didn't want to increase AOA any more.  The low pressure zone of the wing should interact with the diffuser so more testing is needed.   

 

 

 

We started with too many modifications and had very odd results.  You could feel a signficant flat floor effect that would stop once the car was on a rumble, which was very bad for Road Atlanta.   We were getting understeer on turn-in and oversteer on exit that would snap correct.   We changed from an additional 0.5" of rake to no or little rake, we changed back to a non-vented hood, and trimmed out the wing to get a good balance for the race.   In 2019 we ran 0 degrees AOA, but for 2020 we had to run a mid-gurney flap and ~3 degrees AOA to balance the car.  This is interesting because the fastback SHOULD improve wing performance and the mini-splitters should increase rear downforce atleast a few lbs.  Combined with the flat floor we should have even more rear bias.  

 

 

 

In conclusion, we didn't learn a whole lot except that the following things matter:

 - Wing position

 - Hood venting

 - Flat floor

 - Rake

 

Removing hood vents, seemed to cool the transmission tunnel more.

The flat floor works but loses DF on rumbles so much so that we wanted to trim this out to improve consistency.

 

We will be testing this further at NCM and Road America.  

 

 

Penskes:

Edited by LuckyKid
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3 hours ago, mindspin311 said:

How are you guys getting data on your aero testing? What sort of parameters are you monitoring?

Lap times, cornering speed, end of straight speed, and balance.  We don't have any sensors other than basic DAQ which only validates what we are feeling on track.

 

Drag is likely the variable we have the least "feel" for. 

 

Expect a lot more actionable information after NCM.  We didn't really get to the point of testing the good stuff at Road Atlanta since we just switched to Penskes and changed alot on the car.  It just took to long to get back in balance.  Now we have a baseline and I expect to fully test different rake angles and the extracted hood.   Ideally we can create so much DF from the floor that we can remove the rear wing.  That is the goal for Road America anyway.  

 

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1 hour ago, KoneKillah said:

I saw you're spilling secrets on Miata Turbo. I love that LFX Hypermiata build! 

Not meant to be secrets, I just wait until its more proven before posting it here as a knowledge base for other teams.  Right now our flat floor has more questions than answers and I still have questions waiting for tech desk until we modify our OEM header.  Then we need to dyno it to see if we just screwed ourselves, lol.  

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1 hour ago, LuckyKid said:

Not meant to be secrets, I just wait until its more proven before posting it here as a knowledge base for other teams.  Right now our flat floor has more questions than answers and I still have questions waiting for tech desk until we modify our OEM header.  Then we need to dyno it to see if we just screwed ourselves, lol.  

 

I was going to ask if you had any thoughts on the two 90 degree bends needed to do it. I think it would hurt less than one might realize.

 

I have to say that a lot of us really appreciate what you guys put back into the sport. I'll be watching how the flat floor/exhaust shapes up. You guys are pretty much beta testers for a lot of Ideas I have had in the past.

Edited by KoneKillah
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19 hours ago, KoneKillah said:

 

I was going to ask if you had any thoughts on the two 90 degree bends needed to do it. I think it would hurt less than one might realize.

 

I have to say that a lot of us really appreciate what you guys put back into the sport. I'll be watching how the flat floor/exhaust shapes up. You guys are pretty much beta testers for a lot of Ideas I have had in the past.

I THINK we can get the same HP from a SKUNK2 manifold as we can with our Racing Beat header.  If we go to the JDM header, we can trade the points for the intake manifold and we should be even on HP.  

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2 minutes ago, KoneKillah said:

JDM header is free then?!? grrrrrrrrr.

 

Makes sense to chop that up as opposed to the RB unit I suppose.

So long as you have all the documentation to prove it came with your JDM motor, then the JDM header is free.

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image.png.fe30fd4e9469bbea1869632bf79a84cd.png

 

Looking at it it would be super easy to make a collector match up right here. This is way further forward of the RB header flange and should give enough room to make that bend fairly gentle.

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2 minutes ago, KoneKillah said:

image.png.fe30fd4e9469bbea1869632bf79a84cd.png

 

Looking at it it would be super easy to make a collector match up right here. This is way further forward of the RB header flange and should give enough room to make that bend fairly gentle.

What engine is that from?  That looks different than mine which has an O2 sensor in the circled section.

 

I am waiting on a formal ruling on where the "header" stops and the free exhaust starts.  Then we will start cutting.

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On 2/20/2020 at 10:00 AM, LuckyKid said:

What engine is that from?  That looks different than mine which has an O2 sensor in the circled section.

 

I am waiting on a formal ruling on where the "header" stops and the free exhaust starts.  Then we will start cutting.

 

Did you ever get that formal ruling? Is it on the Tech Desk? I am wondering myself.

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