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djsteviec

Hankook RS4 on FWD

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Hi all,

 

I am looking to see if anyone has any data on Hankook RS4 tires, primarily on FWD cars.

 

I have a high HP FWD  and use Zlll, but would like to get more life from the tires. I have heard the RS4 are not good in the rain, but not sure if that is more related to RWD?

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Mopar 4 Life said:

What is high hp? I have had no problems so far with RS4’s on our current car

 

How many hours do you get out of the fronts? What size?

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324whp.  Reverse stagger- 245/40/17 FR and 225/45/17 RR.

 

Just did our 1st race at The Glen with the Zlll, which we always used on the old CR-X. Had uneven wear, which I think occurred due to high pressure. It looks like the optimal hot temp for the car and tires is 38FR and 36RR with the Zlll. But the temps got to like 50PSI! So, that definitely did not help.

 

Only running about 2-2.5 degrees camber and the tires wore evenly across the tire at proper temp, in short term testing.

 

Should be able to get a minimum of 9hrs on the front. The rear are not wearing at all, which is to be expected. But can't rotate as we used to, due to the stagger.

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324 fwhp?!  Haha, that sounds high enough!  I would suspect the weight of the car would play a big role in the wear of the tires too (obvious comment of the day?)

 

We ran a set of 255/40/17s on a 255 hp Nissan Maxima (heavy front end).  My data is anecdotal (read: pretty much junk), but we absolutely shredded our front outside tires (front left tire on a clockwise track).  Running at around 36-37 psi, and not enough camber (maybe 1 degree or less), way too soft front springs,  and a track that is brutal for wear, we chunked the outside 3"or so.  The front right was looking like it was starting to chunk but not nearly as bad.  The rear tires (same size) wore nicely.

 

We are about to go test again prior to Watkins with all new tires, better camber, stiffer springs, a set of 225 rears to compare directly with the 255s, and we even got ourselves a sweet new pyrometer.  If there is anything to note, will definitely share.

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42 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

 

Image result for torque steer meme

 

 

Equal length half shafts after the fixed mid shaft. Nothing really noticeable. But you definitely need to be able to feather the pedal. You can burn right through 1st, 2nd and 3rd if you want to. Used pretty much only 5th and 6th at Watkins Glen, 4th in the toe.

52 minutes ago, thewheelerZ said:

324 fwhp?!  Haha, that sounds high enough!  I would suspect the weight of the car would play a big role in the wear of the tires too (obvious comment of the day?)

 

We ran a set of 255/40/17s on a 255 hp Nissan Maxima (heavy front end).  My data is anecdotal (read: pretty much junk), but we absolutely shredded our front outside tires (front left tire on a clockwise track).  Running at around 36-37 psi, and not enough camber (maybe 1 degree or less), way too soft front springs,  and a track that is brutal for wear, we chunked the outside 3"or so.  The front right was looking like it was starting to chunk but not nearly as bad.  The rear tires (same size) wore nicely.

 

We are about to go test again prior to Watkins with all new tires, better camber, stiffer springs, a set of 225 rears to compare directly with the 255s, and we even got ourselves a sweet new pyrometer.  If there is anything to note, will definitely share.

Sounds good. Would love to hear the results. The car weighs 2400#.

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That's a lot of hp for a champcar.

 

The rs4 are not bad in the rain and wear like iron.

 

That being said, get a tire pyrometer.  It will tell you where your camber and pressures need to be to maximize tire life.

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10 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

That's a lot of hp for a champcar.

 

The rs4 are not bad in the rain and wear like iron.

 

That being said, get a tire pyrometer.  It will tell you where your camber and pressures need to be to maximize tire life.

 

RS4s suck in 28 degree weather with a mix of rain, sleet and snow. 

  • Haha 5

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4 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

Prolly a JDM engine................

It is JDM, but bone stock K24 engine from a TSX.

 

It is a Class B Champcar! 

 

 

Oh, and a supercharger bolted to it. :)

I guess bumped to C with forced induction.  🤣

I run it in AER, but may do a couple events in EC with it.

Most likely Thompson as it is a home track for us.

57165989_10161691986985068_5881109790838489088_o.jpg

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3 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

That's a lot of hp for a champcar.

 

The rs4 are not bad in the rain and wear like iron.

 

That being said, get a tire pyrometer.  It will tell you where your camber and pressures need to be to maximize tire life.

Mainly AER, but hope to do 1 or 2 events in EC.

Thanks! I actually have one, but didn't use it. Checked wear during the day by scrub f tires and appeared even across the entire tread. But the Direzza are very sensitive to pressure, and had a fuel dump issue we were chasing (fixed now), so wasn't paying as close attention as I should have.

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13 hours ago, thewheelerZ said:

^^^ Obvious comment of the day #2!

 

Not true.  Some people had no issues with them in the rain/sleet/snow, but we had issues on our car ;) 

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5 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

Not true.  Some people had no issues with them in the rain/sleet/snow, but we had issues on our car ;) 

Haha, I was more or less kidding.  But, I think its a pretty safe statement to say that pretty much all 180 treadwear tires suck in 28 degrees and snowing weather!

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On 5/8/2019 at 7:57 AM, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

Not true.  Some people had no issues with them in the rain/sleet/snow, but we had issues on our car ;) 

 

We thought ours were just fine last year in the rain/sleet/snow/wind and otherwise pleasant October weekend at Road America.  It seems like car setup must play a major roll for these tires in the wet.   Some teams said they were junk and some teams said they liked them.  We were running lap times in the top 5 while it was actually snowing.

 

Running an Integra with the stock B18C in it.  Staggered setup 245 on the front 225 on the rear.  At RA this year in the nicer weather, we did about 7.5 hours on the first day and the front tires looked like they could do the second day no problem.  The rears went the whole weekend and could still do more if we hadn't flat spotted the crap out of them with bad brake bias.  At Autobahn in 2016/17 or whatever year that was, it was over 100 degrees outside and we had some chunking, otherwise they worked well.

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5 hours ago, Clueless Racing said:

 

We thought ours were just fine last year in the rain/sleet/snow/wind and otherwise pleasant October weekend at Road America.  It seems like car setup must play a major roll for these tires in the wet.   Some teams said they were junk and some teams said they liked them.  We were running lap times in the top 5 while it was actually snowing.

 

Running an Integra with the stock B18C in it.  Staggered setup 245 on the front 225 on the rear.  At RA this year in the nicer weather, we did about 7.5 hours on the first day and the front tires looked like they could do the second day no problem.  The rears went the whole weekend and could still do more if we hadn't flat spotted the crap out of them with bad brake bias.  At Autobahn in 2016/17 or whatever year that was, it was over 100 degrees outside and we had some chunking, otherwise they worked well.

Good point to bring up temps.  We had poor luck at RA on the RS4's in the cold with the Miata.  RE71's were the ticket.  That same Autobahn event you mention though, our RS4's ran  the whole weekend and the opening 8hrs at Gingerman after, plus a test day.  All depends on the car and the set up.

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Alright, so anyone want some better data.  Feel free to tell me what you think and any suggestions!

 

Evening Session, 12-14 degrees C (53-57 F), Shannonville Full track (clockwise), 2002 Nissan Maxima.  Unsure of exact weight, count on 2950 lb (with 60-65% front bias).  -1.9 FL and -2.1 FR camber, approx 0.5 camber on both rears.  Zero toe all around.  255/40/17 fronts, 225/45/17 rears.  Temps taken immediately at pit in.  Note that there was a big puddle to drive through at pit in  before taking temps.  Driver 3 was approx 1s faster on a 2:05 lap.

 

image.png.ada5747acc4eee4fcc1c7842c8f3271f.png

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Looks like middle temp is higher than the average on each graph.  That indicates over inflated.

 

Also it looks like inside temps are all, on average, higher than outside temps.  That indicates a bit more camber needed on all tires except right rear.

 

That front right needs a couple of degrees more camber!

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I am a bit confused that the front left has less static camber on a track that would be harder on the front left and it's temperatures indicate it doesn't need as much camber increase as the front right.

 

You did say this was clockwise, right?  More right turns than left, correct?

 

 

One more thing...  that last set of temps is getting up there.  I might be thinking even wider tire to help disperse that heat.  Not sure that would be sustainable over a 14 hour race.  I have not had temps that high, so I don't know, but I would be maximizing the camber and pressures get those temps more even and hopefully lower the high temp.

Edited by wvumtnbkr

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13 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Looks like middle temp is higher than the average on each graph.  That indicates over inflated.

 

Also it looks like inside temps are all, on average, higher than outside temps.  That indicates a bit more less camber needed on all tires except right rear.

 

That front right needs a half couple of degree more less camber!

I'd try -1.75 fronts and -1.0 rears next time out and drop the hot psi a couple of pounds.

Edited by mender
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@wvumtnbkr More camber, as in less negative camber is what I assume you mean right?  Yes, Im surprised to at the temp difference between sides. Yes, clockwise so more rights than lefts.  Maybe the puddle didnt actually hit the right tires? (though rear tires dont really tell that story...).  I need to do some more research to see what is acceptable for tire temps.  But certainly we will be trying to lower the pressure on front tires.  Maybe try 35 lbs and go from there.

 

@mender Yeah, -1.75 on the front is what i was thinking would be worth a try.  However, the rear beam axle laughs at your suggestion for the rears!

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How does the car do in terms of body roll? Does the Toe go all weird if you lift the front end of the car? Diff type?

 

Also which pits were you using? Looks like there's one set coming out of turn 14 and another off the long straight leaving 10?

 

 

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