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Bill Strong

2019 Official Lifeline VIR 24-Hour Classic

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2 hours ago, Black Magic said:

 

I think he wasn't expecting the other car to put 1/4 of his nose in there, and expected the other car to not attempt a passing maneuver he could not fully complete without the blue car moving from his line. That is exactly what the rules dictate the blue car should have done. 

 

I totally agree with you point of being aware, and rules don't fix cars, and we all need to share. I don't think anything you shared is wrong....

 

The point is many overtaking cars are not heeding the rules for passing, and throwing it in there for passes they cannot "Fully compete" without moving a slower car off the line they turned in and dedicated to. Often against cars they could have just passed on a straight. This makes it tough for us to grow the sport to the target growth audience, new to racing drivers. I would have to in good conscience tell a new driver to ride the inside line of every turn in an aggressive way, because you will get dive bombed and wrecked by a faster car if you drive a racing line and simply glance in your mirror 2 seconds before turning in. Right now many will not judge if they can "complete the pass fully" before attempting it.

 

Ironically some of the best awareness for making passes they can fully complete was done by a orange bmw, that stayed clean and won the race...

 

From the bccr...

 

7.2.2. The responsibility for passing another car and accomplishing 
that pass safely rests with the overtaking driver. The driver 
that is about to be overtaken has the responsibility to be 
aware that he or she is about to be passed, give hand-signals 
and shall not impede the overtaking car.
 7.2.2.1. The driver being overtaken should, at all times, remain on 
their racing line unless the car is impaired and is unable 
to maintain an adequate racing speed.
 7.2.2.2. The driver being overtaken shall not block. Any driver 
who fails to make use of their rear view mirror, or who 
appears to be blocking another car seeking a pass, will 
be black flagged and/or penalized.
 7.2.2.3. It is the responsibility of the overtaking car to prepare 
for, plan and execute a FULL and COMPLETE safe pass. 
The definition of a full and complete pass is when the 
overtaking car has extended a lead of approximately one 
car length ahead of the vehicle being passed.

 

 

Your right dude for God’s sake. 100% right. This guy was right. His car is totaled. 

Anytime you want to be right at the expense of totaling your car go ahead. OR  you can learn how to see around you and know that a car is there and not turn in, be right and not be totaled 

Edited by JCrist

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Too many potential options with this pass- but to me it was kind of clear that the blue car was not giving an inch as the passing car could never really catch (pull fully along side) the blue car coming into the bottom of the esses.  If I was the lagging car- I would have just tucked in behind the blue car- because either A) he didn't know I was there, or b ) he wasn't going to lift to allow me by before the entrance. 

If the closing speed was greater, then the blue car could have given him room on the entrance (car width or so) and never would have to worry about it.

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31 minutes ago, JCrist said:

Maybe you saying it will work? 

 

Always a chance, right??! 

 

I backed out of so many disappearing opportunities this weekend and I don't feel too bad about it.

 

My sense of urgency would def be different if I was running a car that was running to place. 

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2 hours ago, bendawson3 said:

All this about the passing rules and who's got the right to be where comes down to this for me: I leave a way out and if somebody ever seems like they're going to drive like I'm not there, for whatever reason, I back out of it.

 

Better to be right and wrecked or right, whole and planning the pass again? None of us are pros and any of us may be out there for the first time. Big consideration for me, in planning moves out there with this group. It's not a bad thing, just another element to the competition here. 

I agree with this. But, at night I found it difficult to make the same assessments that are relatively easy in daylight. The opposite seemed to be true for many of the faster cars who just “threw it in there” whether it was day or night as if they owned the corner on speed alone. And don’t even get me started on the d bag that flashed his/her lights going up the esses as if I was supposed to pull over and let him/her go by. Frig that (which has to be said in a Maine accent).

Edited by Hammerheads
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3 minutes ago, Hammerheads said:

I agree with this. But, at night I found it difficult to make the same assessments that are relatively easy in daylight. The opposite seemed to be true for many of the faster cars who just “threw it in there” whether it was day or night as if they owned the corner on speed alone. And don’t even get me started on the d bag that flashed his/her lights going up the esses as if I was supposed to pull over and let him/her go by. Frig that (which has to be said in a Maine accent).

 

Yeah, I shot by your car a lot in traffic but usually ducking by in a place where I knew i could run faster and get it done safely without your driver having to alter what they were doing. 

 

For me, a lot of knowing what I can and can't get away with comes from driving that course for almost 15 years. I'm sure I wouldn't be as confident at a course that's new to me. 

 

For me, passing in a series like this is better if I can sneak through without making anybody do anything different or I"ll just back up the corner entry and get a run that will let me walk by them on the way out of the corner. I think the pass on exit is the ideal  and the safest, if the pace allows for it

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First post ever! 

 

Was driving the 216 Sparrow Speed Miata, did 3 full stints, and a lot of passing slower and faster cars..

 

Driving a Miata, a pass on the exits was off the books most of the time, unless the car in front messed up..

 

The way I did it (Cleanly most of the time, I thought), was to show my nose at an entry and see how the car in front reacted. Some showed awareness and left some room preparing for a potential divebomb, and some closed the door aggressively on me, which was perfectly fine, as it was their corner. That would give me an idea on how to deal with that car.

 

The aggressive ones, I wouldn't dream on taking them on on places like the esses, as it would be a recipe for disaster.. Whereas the ones who seemed more aware, I was more comfortable outbraking (call it divebomb if you so wish!!) into hogpen, T1, T4, even into T10, and it turned out perfectly fine every time..

 

A lot of folks in this series, have been very considerate, when I run round them on the outside and crowding their exit, thereby getting a better run out of the corner than them. In a miata, that was sometimes quite easy to do in the lower esses, and everyone cooperated, thereby losing everyone as little time as possible.

 

But whatever said and done, I was prepared and gave myself enough margin to back out of any move when the door was slammed on me!! 

 

Looking at some videos of the race, some passes seem like the safety margin just wasn't there..

Edited by Karkai6
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1 hour ago, Karkai6 said:

First post ever! 

 

Was driving the 216 Sparrow Speed Miata, did 3 full stints, and a lot of passing slower and faster cars..

 

Driving a Miata, a pass on the exits was off the books most of the time, unless the car in front messed up..

 

The way I did it (Cleanly most of the time, I thought), was to show my nose at an entry and see how the car in front reacted. Some showed awareness and left some room preparing for a potential divebomb, and some closed the door aggressively on me, which was perfectly fine, as it was their corner. That would give me an idea on how to deal with that car.

 

The aggressive ones, I wouldn't dream on taking them on on places like the esses, as it would be a recipe for disaster.. Whereas the ones who seemed more aware, I was more comfortable outbraking (call it divebomb if you so wish!!) into hogpen, T1, T4, even into T10, and it turned out perfectly fine every time..

 

A lot of folks in this series, have been very considerate, when I run round them on the outside and crowding their exit, thereby getting a better run out of the corner than them. In a miata, that was sometimes quite easy to do in the lower esses, and everyone cooperated, thereby losing everyone as little time as possible.

 

But whatever said and done, I was prepared and gave myself enough margin to back out of any move when the door was slammed on me!! 

 

Looking at some videos of the race, some passes seem like the safety margin just wasn't there..

 

Endurance racing a Miata can be tricky business with faster cars that corner slowly, but it can be fun! Slower E30's and E36's can be a real hassle though... I had fun racing against your car 8:30-10:30 stint, I was in blue and white Hugh Jass Miata. 

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8 minutes ago, the.cheat said:

 

Endurance racing a Miata can be tricky business with faster cars that corner slowly, but it can be fun! Slower E30's and E36's can be a real hassle though... I had fun racing against your car 8:30-10:30 stint, I was in blue and white Hugh Jass Miata. 

That stint was me alright!! 

 

Cheers from another long time iracer!! I am a classic example of long time simracer turned wannabe real racer!! The very thing your team stands for!

 

I guess our passing techniques have been learnt from countless failed attempts in iracing lol!

Edited by Karkai6
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2 hours ago, Karkai6 said:

That stint was me alright!! 

 

Cheers from another long time iracer!! I am a classic example of long time simracer turned wannabe real racer!! The very thing your team stands for!

 

I guess our passing techniques have been learnt from countless failed attempts in iracing lol!

 

 

Awesome! Cheers! I enjoyed being out on track around you, I think you had a touch more straight line than us (1.6 club) and managed to sneak away through traffic, but I had some fun with you early in the stint and enjoyed trusting you side by side all the way through the hog pen/roller coaster complex (if I am recalling correctly) and maybe some other spots.

 

I got stuck with a white e36 and the maroon ish e30 with googly eyes on it for most of the stint- they were both lapping slower than I could in clean air but were not particularly interested in conceding to a 1.6 Miata. Many passing attempts and like half the stint stuck hanging off their bumpers, but always motored back by on the straights...

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1 hour ago, the.cheat said:

 

 

Awesome! Cheers! I enjoyed being out on track around you, I think you had a touch more straight line than us (1.6 club) and managed to sneak away through traffic, but I had some fun with you early in the stint and enjoyed trusting you side by side all the way through the hog pen/roller coaster complex (if I am recalling correctly) and maybe some other spots.

 

I got stuck with a white e36 and the maroon ish e30 with googly eyes on it for most of the stint- they were both lapping slower than I could in clean air but were not particularly interested in conceding to a 1.6 Miata. Many passing attempts and like half the stint stuck hanging off their bumpers, but always motored back by on the straights...

Yeah, I had enquired about what was up with you guys this year and I learnt about the testing incident.. That would have sucked!! Hopefully your next event starts on a much positive note!!

 

We Sparrow speed guys had a much better car this year and we were doing a lot of 21s - 23s.. Definitely had a leg up on you guys, but you still put up a fight in that morning stint .. I remember being annoyed at the heat if the moment, as to why you were hanging onto a losing battle lol!!

 

Even though our finish position was screwed by a bad alternator, my race was way more fun than last year.. Lot of clean racing with different cars, and a big shout-out to the Brexit Miata guys (Nicholas?), with whom I enjoyed a great clean half hour scrap on Saturday..

 

Very good stuff and a classic race!

Edited by Karkai6

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On 8/11/2019 at 7:43 PM, dogtired said:

I'm still processing what occurred between us and another team..... not sure I will publicly share my realizations.... or privately either that matter.  

 

But 14 hours later, as it sinks in... ..ugh.

 

 

Come on let it out, you'll feel better. 

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17 hours ago, Karkai6 said:

First post ever! 

 

Was driving the 216 Sparrow Speed Miata, did 3 full stints, and a lot of passing slower and faster cars..

 

Driving a Miata, a pass on the exits was off the books most of the time, unless the car in front messed up..

 

The way I did it (Cleanly most of the time, I thought), was to show my nose at an entry and see how the car in front reacted. Some showed awareness and left some room preparing for a potential divebomb, and some closed the door aggressively on me, which was perfectly fine, as it was their corner. That would give me an idea on how to deal with that car.

 

The aggressive ones, I wouldn't dream on taking them on on places like the esses, as it would be a recipe for disaster.. Whereas the ones who seemed more aware, I was more comfortable outbraking (call it divebomb if you so wish!!) into hogpen, T1, T4, even into T10, and it turned out perfectly fine every time..

 

A lot of folks in this series, have been very considerate, when I run round them on the outside and crowding their exit, thereby getting a better run out of the corner than them. In a miata, that was sometimes quite easy to do in the lower esses, and everyone cooperated, thereby losing everyone as little time as possible.

 

But whatever said and done, I was prepared and gave myself enough margin to back out of any move when the door was slammed on me!! 

 

Looking at some videos of the race, some passes seem like the safety margin just wasn't there..

 

Man, I ended up pulling a lot of passes off in the middle of Oak Tree, which seems counter to my usually cautious approach. That was kind of a weird thing at this race. 

 

I think it's because there were so many drivers there who were unfamiliar with the course and were over-slowing there by a lot. Most of those passes, I just ran my normal line between the two apexes of the oak tree complex when the other car over-braked and ran way out wide. Always worked but I always left them a lot of room on exit to make sure they got out without a problem too. 

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23 hours ago, the.cheat said:

and the maroon ish e30 with googly eyes on it for most of the stint

Hey, I know those guys!!!

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23 hours ago, DEE DEE said:

Come on let it out, you'll feel better. 

I actually just tried.... I can't.  

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8 hours ago, Rapido said:

Me too!

 

It would be cool for BMWs to realize that when a 1.6 miata is making multiple pass attempts, on your ass lap after lap after lap, catching back up after traffic, etc. That the miata is capable of putting faster laps down- but that's just budget endurance racing I guess.

 

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Here's my contact with the Huggins car ~3am. I felt bad then and still do now- I should have seen him slip under me but somehow I didn't :(

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, ross2004 said:

Here's my contact with the Huggins car ~3am. I felt bad then and still do now- I should have seen him slip under me but somehow I didn't :(

 

 

 

 

Ross, sorry I didn't get to apologize at the track.  We shouldn't have tried that - easier and safer to just wait until the back straight.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Huggy said:

 

Ross, sorry I didn't get to apologize at the track.  We shouldn't have tried that - easier and safer to just wait until the back straight.

 

 

Hey, can you guys stop arguing and calling each other names? It's really not a good look for you both 😂

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