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turbogrill

Miata K24 swap?

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Hi

 

The K24A4 minivan engine seems like a good miata swap. Has anyone done this? 

 

There is a kit but its $2500, maybe that is why its not commln?

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Hi

 

The K24A4 minivan engine seems like a good miata swap. Has anyone done this? 

 

There is a kit but its $2500, maybe that is why its not commln?

2020, the swap limit goes up to $2500. 

Edited by LuckyKid

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3 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Hi

 

The K24A4 minivan engine seems like a good miata swap. Has anyone done this? 

 

There is a kit but its $2500, maybe that is why its not commln?

Where do you see it for $2500?  K MIata shows the basic kit for $3750? 

 

For the $$ and doing what we do, I would not go this route at this time.  It would be an ec monster though.

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1 hour ago, hotchkis23 said:

Where do you see it for $2500?  K MIata shows the basic kit for $3750? 

 

For the $$ and doing what we do, I would not go this route at this time.  It would be an ec monster though.

 

The $3750 has harness and otherstuff. If you buy the minimum pieces needed it's about $2500.

 

Why EC monster? 160 minivan horsepower. The K24A2 is a EC monster :) 

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11 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

If you buy the minimum pieces needed it's about $2500.

 

Subframe - $1,350

Trans Adapter - $500

Flywheel - $750

Oil Pan - $1,000

 

Isn't the cost supposed to include the motor? K24a4 - $500

 

$4,100 minimum stuff

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14 minutes ago, Wink said:

Subframe - $1,350

Trans Adapter - $500

Flywheel - $750

Oil Pan - $1,000

 

Isn't the cost supposed to include the motor? K24a4 - $500

 

$4,100 minimum stuff

 

 

1.

I am optimistic. I am sure you can get a K24A4 for almost nothing. 

 

2.

I was under the impression that flywheels are free? 

 

3.

I think there are some wiggle room on the oilpan, worst case you would have to take points for it and not include it in the swap.

 

 

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For #2, they are not free.  They are free from points but need included in the swap costs.  This is what I was told for my swap....

Still, the swap costs are 1500$.  Not 2500 unless there has been a change that I am unaware of.

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20 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

For #2, they are not free.  They are free from points but need included in the swap costs.  This is what I was told for my swap....

Still, the swap costs are 1500$.  Not 2500 unless there has been a change that I am unaware of.

Petition was passed for 2020 to increase max cost to $2,500, in the board meeting at Charlotte. 

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2 hours ago, Wink said:

Petition was passed for 2020 to increase max cost to $2,500, in the board meeting at Charlotte. 

 

2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

For #2, they are not free.  They are free from points but need included in the swap costs.  This is what I was told for my swap....

Still, the swap costs are 1500$.  Not 2500 unless there has been a change that I am unaware of.

 

This max dollar number for the kit parts is a bit strange. I suck at fabbing but my cage guy could easily fab that kit for him self for $1000 or less. The materials are cheap, it's not like it's made of gold.

 

 

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There's nothing saying you have to buy a kit either. The nice thing about the kits is the engineering is done for you already, but looks like the hardest part here is the clutch/flywheel.

 

Measure/drill/machine a half inch plate to adapt the patterns, buy the clutch/flywheel, mount that all up to the trans in the car with the subframe off, then cut/weld/modify from there :)

 

If you can find enough details about it, might be able to get a combo of factory clutch/flywheel parts to work too. Someone like Detroit Clutch can do custom plates/splines/etc to get the Honda clutch disk with the Mazda input shaft.

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

 

This max dollar number for the kit parts is a bit strange. I suck at fabbing but my cage guy could easily fab that kit for him self for $1000 or less. The materials are cheap, it's not like it's made of gold.

 

 

  I thought the same thing.  How about someone starts making kits for the EXACT cost limit and then there is a mandatory "Tip" of the balance of the actual costs but its not on any receipt.  I have always felt this was basically impossible to enforce if someone decided they wanted to put forth some effort to BS it.

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3 hours ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

  I thought the same thing.  How about someone starts making kits for the EXACT cost limit and then there is a mandatory "Tip" of the balance of the actual costs but its not on any receipt.  I have always felt this was basically impossible to enforce if someone decided they wanted to put forth some effort to BS it.

Agree,  it seems like a throwback rule that to me isn’t really necessary. The HP limit is the the important restriction to me.   It was my petition that was approved to raise the limit to 2500.  Initially I was going to write it to just eliminate the dolllar amount.   After consulting with a couple of folks they thought it’d be more likely to get through if there was still a limit. So I went that way.   

As newer cars come in, swaps will be more and more important for the older cars.  I think....

Edited by JDChristianson
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On 5/12/2019 at 4:44 PM, turbogrill said:

Hi

 

The K24A4 minivan engine seems like a good miata swap. Has anyone done this? 

 

There is a kit but its $2500, maybe that is why its not commln?

 

Why not just do the Ecotec like everyone else?  Its a proven platform, the 2.4 has 10 more hp and 10 more lb-ft, and the swap already fits the $1500 limit.  And its not like you can just swap a couple of parts and get K24A2 power either - the heads are different.

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13 minutes ago, DaveH said:

 

Why not just do the Ecotec like everyone else?  Its a proven platform, the 2.4 has 10 more hp and 10 more lb-ft, and the swap already fits the $1500 limit.  And its not like you can just swap a couple of parts and get K24A2 power either - the heads are different.

 

Just exploring options, agree on Ecotec being a good swap.

 

However there seems to be a very interesting "vtec killer" thing you can do on the K24A4. Not sure what it means but I think you swap in valve train from a K20 and you get millions of hp, even with the KA24A4 head.

And the KA24A4 is rated at 160hp vs the ecotec 164hp.  The differences could give you a wing!

 

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I am local to Kmiata, and they are aware of the 2020 rule change and are working on something specific for Champcar.

 

I have recently been to their shop, and was impressed by their extremely high quality engineering and machining.

 

For anyone not familiar with the company you can visit their website at Kmiata.com

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1 hour ago, red0 said:

I am local to Kmiata, and they are aware of the 2020 rule change and are working on something specific for Champcar.

 

I have recently been to their shop, and was impressed by their extremely high quality engineering and machining.

 

For anyone not familiar with the company you can visit their website at Kmiata.com

Interesting!  Also, good news to hear!

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1 hour ago, red0 said:

I am local to Kmiata, and they are aware of the 2020 rule change and are working on something specific for Champcar.

 

I have recently been to their shop, and was impressed by their extremely high quality engineering and machining.

 

For anyone not familiar with the company you can visit their website at Kmiata.com

Dang, that's bad news for the Mazda powered cars. That will be a game changer. 200 horse in 2,000 lb cars 😳

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11 minutes ago, Wink said:

Dang, that's bad news for the Mazda powered cars. That will be a game changer. 200 horse in 2,000 lb cars 😳

How do you make 200rwhp out of a k24A4?  I thought some ecotec were up to that, but maybe it was a rumor.

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Might have been an exaggeration... or an implication of cheaty bits. 

 

But the biggest win they'll have is they ''cant'' run a stock intake manifold since it faces the wrong direction. 

 

Plus the race header, will have you off to a good start.

 

Ecotec have already set the precedent on those to be included right? 

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9 minutes ago, Wink said:

Might have been an exaggeration... or an implication of cheaty bits. 

 

But the biggest win they'll have is they ''cant'' run a stock intake manifold since it faces the wrong direction. 

 

Plus the race header, will have you off to a good start.

 

Ecotec have already set the precedent on those to be included right? 

For a short tube turbo manifold 

 

A legal ecoTech is not 200.    And 200 will never do 2 hours, and you’ll want to get good at replacing transmissions I think.    It would be fun as heck up the the point the trans case was suddenly filled with metal confetti.   

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I have been googling Ecotecs for a while and numbers are all over the place. EcotecMiata and Good Win Miata claims 200whp with bolt ons, people on forums claim 160whp with bolt ons.

But it seems like you can get a nice torquey 160whp with stock and a good tune. That is a nice PWR with about 100points left to play with.

 

You might also get the impression that it's an reliable easy swap, forums seems to tell a slightly different story. There is also a huge backlog on kits and some people complain about the quality. I am surprised that only one company is making them, supposedly it's an easy kit.

 

 

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10 hours ago, turbogrill said:

I have been googling Ecotecs for a while and numbers are all over the place.

To get to 200HP/200TQ you need to ported head, shaved deck, and a good tune ... says so right on the site.  Often the numbers people are posting are untuned, stock head, junkyard motors that make 160-170whp ... which still makes for a very competitive ChampCar without the risk of losing a costly ported cylinder head in the event of a crash or catastrophic failure.  Piloting the Ergolab Ecotec Miata I managed a 2:50 at Road America last month with an open-diff and failing clutch, and it's not a 200hp monster.  

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15 hours ago, LuckyKid said:

How do you make 200rwhp out of a k24A4?  I thought some ecotec were up to that, but maybe it was a rumor.

The only way to do that with an Ecotec is to go the 2.2 route and add cams.  And then the team that did it have broken rockers and springs nearly every race.  That's why I opted for a 2.4 stock motor.  But I get 160HP out of it with the tune.  

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