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RC413

Looking for Neon gen1 parts

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Just grabbed a 95 old Neon Challenge car. Hope to get to an event or two this summer. Looking for some wheels and hub settups. Would like to be able to run some more tire up front so some wider wheels would be nice. 

 

-Wheels

-Hubs, hub parts, hub swaps.... Apparently an issue with these. 

-Any other Champ worthy stuff. 

 

Thanks Ross

 

I am in Pa. West Chester to be exact. 

 

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:08 PM, RC413 said:

Just grabbed a 95 old Neon Challenge car. Hope to get to an event or two this summer. Looking for some wheels and hub settups. Would like to be able to run some more tire up front so some wider wheels would be nice. 

 

-Wheels

-Hubs, hub parts, hub swaps.... Apparently an issue with these. 

-Any other Champ worthy stuff. 

 

Thanks Ross

 

I am in Pa. West Chester to be exact. 

 

We run a 98 neon. We run Bassett 15" wheels there cheep and you can pic your offset.

As far as hub setup one easy upgrade is to run PT cruiser(manual Trans) front spindles and half shafts. Gives you bigger rotors and breaks. need to turn down the top of the spindle to make them fit into the neon struts. will take a hit on points for axles.

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3 hours ago, Plum crazy said:

We run a 98 neon. We run Bassett 15" wheels there cheep and you can pic your offset.

As far as hub setup one easy upgrade is to run PT cruiser(manual Trans) front spindles and half shafts. Gives you bigger rotors and breaks. need to turn down the top of the spindle to make them fit into the neon struts. will take a hit on points for axles.

Awesome info man, thanks. 

 

Do the Bassetts hold up well? Seems guys complain about the steelies bending. I would love to get a 245 or 225 settup. I really thought a 245f/225r staggered settup would be fun. 

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16 hours ago, RC413 said:

Awesome info man, thanks. 

 

Do the Bassetts hold up well? Seems guys complain about the steelies bending. I would love to get a 245 or 225 settup. I really thought a 245f/225r staggered settup would be fun. 

 

Welcome to the neon club. I have raced or helped teams race about a half dozen of these things. 

 

If you are just getting started, the PT swap is a good place to start. Keep in mind 01 and 02 and newer knuckles are different and require different axles to work. You will need to mill the top of the knuckle to the narrower neon width to use neon struts. Most guys doing this swap claim it as 25 points for a trans swap, as we classically got the axles and knuckles from the donor car when doing a trans swap in the past (claiming the 01 or 02 pt 5 speed trans, which is also a t350 or t355 like the neon). 

 

The basset wheels do pretty well. They take dents but end up useable, and I have pulled some small dents out successfully. Keep in mind at 60ish bucks you will not find another wheel close to this price, so consider it a consumable and toss them when they get bad. They also use different lug nuts, buy the right ones when you do your wheel purchase (all look up the "race tech" video series if you want more info on this and other topics). 

 

You will end up about 5ish in backspacing to fit the car. You need to be careful of strut to tire clearance when you run enough camber to do well (slotting your struts to knuckle holes for more adjustment like the ACR cars had). You should source the SDK suspension (ACR\mopar, any car that picked SDK option) springs and bars if you car did not come equipped, as this is radically better than some of the base optioned bar setups were (aka no rear bar and small front). As a challenge car it is most likely a SDK suspension car. 10" wheels are a bit ambitious, and I have worked hard to try and fit them to my new build. Unless you are making a serious 2.4 motor, 8" wheels are a much easier bet and will let you move on to other parts of the car that matter. 

 

You will want the 95 DOHC\ACR trans for the better 5th ratio. This gearbox could be ordered in almost any car, as the "ACR" option was a add on to both SOHC and DOHC. I have contacts that rebuild these for me, and we have parts to support them. 

 

Message me with anything else you need. Good luck with the car. These cars can be very cheap to run and can be reliable if prepped the right way. You will need a 2.4 swap (unless turbo) to ever see the front of the field, but with that motor can do well if the fuel capacity doesn't limit you (pick non 2 hour races or races with cautions\low fuel burn). They are great lemons cars, because the fuel rules there give them a more even shot.

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A good place for info and neon parts is a place out of Texas, Modern Performance. If your running a neon you will be in touch with them sooner or later..😃

Also the first thing we did is a long tube header. it really woke up the 2.0.

We have also modified the intake and are running cams. the car performs well. running RT sway bars and mopar springs.

Like Black Magic said you need to pick your tracks. we run RA and the car just isn't build for that big track. But still a great time.

7hr races and tighter tracks these cars are fun and I think cheap in comparison. 

Have fun

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Awesome info guys. Thanks. 

 

Long tubes are on the car. 

 

2.0 stays for now. Want to get through a race or two first. Trying to convince a few Spec E46 buddy's that champ is where it's at... Then throw together a fun E46. 

 

Started the search for a plastic tank and surge settup. Metal tank for now. Again, great info from this board. 

 

Spares list...? 

 

What gets chewed up the most? Critical items that we need to bring. Not being a neon guy I don't have a baseline. Want to grab a few items to cover the basics. 

 

 

Thanks again. Ross

 

Owe you guys a few beers. Hope to see you at future races. 

 

Trying to avoid signing up for the VIR 24 and do the responsible thing an start small. I had too much fun at the 24 last year, night time wheel to wheel is a life changer. 

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13 hours ago, RC413 said:

Awesome info guys. Thanks. 

 

Long tubes are on the car. 

 

2.0 stays for now. Want to get through a race or two first. Trying to convince a few Spec E46 buddy's that champ is where it's at... Then throw together a fun E46. 

 

Started the search for a plastic tank and surge settup. Metal tank for now. Again, great info from this board. 

 

Spares list...? 

 

What gets chewed up the most? Critical items that we need to bring. Not being a neon guy I don't have a baseline. Want to grab a few items to cover the basics. 

 

 

Thanks again. Ross

 

Owe you guys a few beers. Hope to see you at future races. 

 

Trying to avoid signing up for the VIR 24 and do the responsible thing an start small. I had too much fun at the 24 last year, night time wheel to wheel is a life changer. 

 

Ross where do you run\what tracks are in range? 

 

I am a mid atlantic guy (NC), and I have a few neon teams I run with. If you want to run a race that I am at, we could help support both cars with spares (you will need to pay me for them obviously). I have also done "driver insurance" with teams at the 24hr before, where both teams agree to prioritize every driver getting a stint before anyone gets 2 stints. This spreads the risk of a broken car leading to zero seat time across 2 teams. 

 

The neons tend to have the following issues that you need to support with parts

 

Failed crappy non mopar radiators (a strong fart can put a hole in the crap you buy from parts stores)

warped head\headgasket due to overheating

Hub\bearing failure

brake pad wear on stock sized brakes

CV axles (usually from lack of plunge)

Clutch from driver error

Engine (rod bearing failure from poor oil control)

Cam\crank\oil pan\valve cover seals

Fuel pumps

Shifter bushings

Throttle\clutch and shifter cables from driver ignorance

Critical engine sensors , Crank,Cam, TPS, MAP coolant temp,Knock, Air temp (95 only). 

Have spare pigtails for these sensors (tps and crank like to get cooked and cause weird shorting out)

Starter

Alternator (after you break a motor mount and it becomes the motor mount)

Motor mounts

Fuses

Struts (wreck repair)

Lower control arm (wreck repair)

Tie rod (wreck repair)

Radius rod and bushing (wreck repair)

Lateral links (wreck repair)

If ambitious, a rack on a k member and subframe bolts. 

 

The neon is a k member front suspension car, with the subframe attached to the middle of the car. We have wrecked so hard that the front impact structure was pressed into the tires, put a rad and new knuckles\lower control arms on the car and raced a hour later. Nothing ahead of the firewall attached to the k member, allowing lots of ability to repair. They are tough cars but you need these spares to fix them as the control arms, strut, knuckle and sometimes k member are designed to be the fuse in a major wreck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Breaks!! depending on the track. some tracks are harder on them then others. RA eats breaks.

We always have extra rotors pads and calipers. 

We run the PT setup and do not have break issues. we run Hawk blues and can get 2 weekends out of a set of pads.

If you staying with the Neon front end Performance friction also makes a great set of pads that we ran once. I'll get you the part number.

And never run cross drilled rotors speaking from experience. We ate a set of rotors and pads in the first stint.

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10 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

Ross where do you run\what tracks are in range? 

 

I am a mid atlantic guy (NC), and I have a few neon teams I run with. If you want to run a race that I am at, we could help support both cars with spares (you will need to pay me for them obviously). I have also done "driver insurance" with teams at the 24hr before, where both teams agree to prioritize every driver getting a stint before anyone gets 2 stints. This spreads the risk of a broken car leading to zero seat time across 2 teams. 

 

The neons tend to have the following issues that you need to support with parts

 

Failed crappy non mopar radiators (a strong fart can put a hole in the crap you buy from parts stores)

warped head\headgasket due to overheating

Hub\bearing failure

brake pad wear on stock sized brakes

CV axles (usually from lack of plunge)

Clutch from driver error

Engine (rod bearing failure from poor oil control)

Cam\crank\oil pan\valve cover seals

Fuel pumps

Shifter bushings

Throttle\clutch and shifter cables from driver ignorance

Critical engine sensors , Crank,Cam, TPS, MAP coolant temp,Knock, Air temp (95 only). 

Have spare pigtails for these sensors (tps and crank like to get cooked and cause weird shorting out)

Starter

Alternator (after you break a motor mount and it becomes the motor mount)

Motor mounts

Fuses

Struts (wreck repair)

Lower control arm (wreck repair)

Tie rod (wreck repair)

Radius rod and bushing (wreck repair)

Lateral links (wreck repair)

If ambitious, a rack on a k member and subframe bolts. 

 

The neon is a k member front suspension car, with the subframe attached to the middle of the car. We have wrecked so hard that the front impact structure was pressed into the tires, put a rad and new knuckles\lower control arms on the car and raced a hour later. Nothing ahead of the firewall attached to the k member, allowing lots of ability to repair. They are tough cars but you need these spares to fix them as the control arms, strut, knuckle and sometimes k member are designed to be the fuse in a major wreck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great list, we carry most of what Black Magic listed.

Question for Black Magic.

Are you running a 2.4? if so what year?

you mentioned oil control and rod bearing failure.

We have never had a issue with the 2.0 and we run the carousel at RA which will kill most motors.

We started the year with a 2.4 and spun #4 rod bearing at RA. 

It is a stratus motor which I think has horrible oil return. we are working to remedy that now.

any input would be appreciated.

 

Thanks 

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I use PT cruiser 2.4 engines, which only 01 and 02 are SBEC control (neon ecu style). If you use 03 and newer you will need to swap ecu, which used to be more of a concern when we had cost based swaps. The 01 and 02 have different oil drains on the front of the engine, but I have run both without issue (obviously right head for the block). 

 

2.0 engines tend to pump up the head at RPM's high enough to make the power needed to compete with the 500 point cars of today. They can also develop bottom end issues at those rpms. Hell it was this way in the past as well, when you look at the power to weight we allowed with e30s since i started (in 2012). This was the reason many teams ran the SOHC engine in spec neon, and use the weight balancing instead of opting for the more powerful but higher spinning 2.0 DOHC engine. Pumping up the head depends on the rpm you run, duration of turn, and several other factors. How fast are you spinning the 2.0? 

 

Each of the DOHC accessory types, Neon, cloud car, pt cruiser all have small variations on pan shape. The PT also has the newer style oil pump mounting which plumbs the oil filter thru the pan. This is much easier to fit in the neon, and with the PT alternator mount allows you to use all of the motor from the donor car. You still need to sort out mounts, but with the stratus the oil filter and alternator fit can be tough. The PT pan is very bowl shaped which is terrible for oil control, but once you pull the balance shafts and weld a baffle in at the stock oil level, will give you 7+ qrt capacity (nearly 9 with accusump) and is how I keep my motors alive. Did your 2.4 have balance shafts? If you removed them did you plug the feed and baffle the pan? Accusump? 

 

The 2.4 engine is 20% bigger, and given the same VE would make the same power 20% slower engine speed. That makes 7200 rpm redline on the 2.0 6000 on the 2.4. Straight out of the junkyard you can take these motors to 5500 easily, 6k you start to limit their lifespan. I have yet to see a 2.4 stock, un-rebuilt bottom end, with the correct oil mods and reasonable tune fail when limited to 5500 rpm. I have seen poor rebuilds blow up in their first laps, and high rpm use will limit engine rebuilt interval to a few races. 

 

2.4 stock rods in this vintage are not very good. Cracked powered metal makes them basically single use. Some parts are listed online as OE for that car, but I think they are the design for the new 2.4s (dodge must have updated and marked the old as NLA). Aftermarket non cracked rods will be reusable. Depending on the number of races you do will determine which way you go, both can run the same rpm for a race (one needs to be replaced  after though).  The non mopar rods are cheaper in the short and long run, if you decide to not run a junkyard motor. 

 

Good bearings give you better insurance against failure as well. Clevite H is a great rebuilder bearing. 

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Man, blown away by the good info provided here. Really appreciate it. One of the reasons endurance racing is where it's at!! 

 

I am in South East Pennsylvania. Home track would be NJMP I guess. I have done a few citrus races and a few champ races now. 24VIR last year was the most recent. Really an amazing time.  Planned races would be VIR, PITT, Thompson... 

 

As far as spares and seat sharing, that is a great idea. As of now I feel that the car needs some more testing before a 24. (Might be able to talk a few buddy's into it...) If that changes, you'll be getting a pm from me. 

 

Great spares list. Really good specific info in there too. Seems having built knuckles/hubs and axles is important but having well settup front end is better... 

 

Stock brakes while the hubs and axles are stock too. I have hawk blues and white box OE rotor blanks. I was going to call Carbotech for pads and maybe Frozen for rotors. Any help on brake balance. I have a proportioning valve front/rear to help out. For the rear disks... What pads don't hurt handling and keep flat spotting down while lasting a weekend? 

 

 

I know this is way more of a tech thread than a for sale one now... Any way to get it moved to technical? 

 

 

Thanks Ross

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RC413 said:

Man, blown away by the good info provided here. Really appreciate it. One of the reasons endurance racing is where it's at!! 

 

I am in South East Pennsylvania. Home track would be NJMP I guess. I have done a few citrus races and a few champ races now. 24VIR last year was the most recent. Really an amazing time.  Planned races would be VIR, PITT, Thompson... 

 

As far as spares and seat sharing, that is a great idea. As of now I feel that the car needs some more testing before a 24. (Might be able to talk a few buddy's into it...) If that changes, you'll be getting a pm from me. 

 

Great spares list. Really good specific info in there too. Seems having built knuckles/hubs and axles is important but having well settup front end is better... 

 

Stock brakes while the hubs and axles are stock too. I have hawk blues and white box OE rotor blanks. I was going to call Carbotech for pads and maybe Frozen for rotors. Any help on brake balance. I have a proportioning valve front/rear to help out. For the rear disks... What pads don't hurt handling and keep flat spotting down while lasting a weekend? 

 

 

I know this is way more of a tech thread than a for sale one now... Any way to get it moved to technical? 

 

 

Thanks Ross

 

 

 

 

 

Look in tech section. Made a new post. Future replies there

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19 hours ago, Black Magic said:

I use PT cruiser 2.4 engines, which only 01 and 02 are SBEC control (neon ecu style). If you use 03 and newer you will need to swap ecu, which used to be more of a concern when we had cost based swaps. The 01 and 02 have different oil drains on the front of the engine, but I have run both without issue (obviously right head for the block). 

 

2.0 engines tend to pump up the head at RPM's high enough to make the power needed to compete with the 500 point cars of today. They can also develop bottom end issues at those rpms. Hell it was this way in the past as well, when you look at the power to weight we allowed with e30s since i started (in 2012). This was the reason many teams ran the SOHC engine in spec neon, and use the weight balancing instead of opting for the more powerful but higher spinning 2.0 DOHC engine. Pumping up the head depends on the rpm you run, duration of turn, and several other factors. How fast are you spinning the 2.0? 

 

Each of the DOHC accessory types, Neon, cloud car, pt cruiser all have small variations on pan shape. The PT also has the newer style oil pump mounting which plumbs the oil filter thru the pan. This is much easier to fit in the neon, and with the PT alternator mount allows you to use all of the motor from the donor car. You still need to sort out mounts, but with the stratus the oil filter and alternator fit can be tough. The PT pan is very bowl shaped which is terrible for oil control, but once you pull the balance shafts and weld a baffle in at the stock oil level, will give you 7+ qrt capacity (nearly 9 with accusump) and is how I keep my motors alive. Did your 2.4 have balance shafts? If you removed them did you plug the feed and baffle the pan? Accusump? 

 

The 2.4 engine is 20% bigger, and given the same VE would make the same power 20% slower engine speed. That makes 7200 rpm redline on the 2.0 6000 on the 2.4. Straight out of the junkyard you can take these motors to 5500 easily, 6k you start to limit their lifespan. I have yet to see a 2.4 stock, un-rebuilt bottom end, with the correct oil mods and reasonable tune fail when limited to 5500 rpm. I have seen poor rebuilds blow up in their first laps, and high rpm use will limit engine rebuilt interval to a few races. 

 

2.4 stock rods in this vintage are not very good. Cracked powered metal makes them basically single use. Some parts are listed online as OE for that car, but I think they are the design for the new 2.4s (dodge must have updated and marked the old as NLA). Aftermarket non cracked rods will be reusable. Depending on the number of races you do will determine which way you go, both can run the same rpm for a race (one needs to be replaced  after though).  The non mopar rods are cheaper in the short and long run, if you decide to not run a junkyard motor. 

 

Good bearings give you better insurance against failure as well. Clevite H is a great rebuilder bearing. 

Thanks for the great info.

We are running the 2.0 at 6200RPM shift point. did the same with the 2.4. looks like this needs adjustment.

Also did very little with the oil control in the bottom of the 2.4 made one trap door for windage need to do a lot more.

Also with the older 2.4 block there is only 2 oil returns on the back side of the block and with the huge right hander at RA I believe that the oil filled the head and couldn't return .

will be remedying that.

We were also running SRT4 rods also found out you should be running a high volume pump with those. going back to stock rods.

I would sure like to see a pic or two of what you do in the oil pan for oil control if at all possible.

 

Thanks so much again.

 

Tom

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