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Red Cow #2 vs Keltron #531 - Instant Karma

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How not to behave. Overly aggressive block turned into a hit and a wrecked #531. It is hard to believe but the #531 blamed us for the accident. Thanks to this footage, we got "all clear" for our driver from Mike.

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Wow!!!  Was that even a block?  And why was his hand out of the window?   Can you upload a longer piece of footage (maybe a lap or two) so there is more context?   Certainly not acceptable driving on his part but it seems like more information (video) is needed to fully understand how this ultimately unfolded.  

Edit: the full clip is posted below (unless it gets taken off if YouTube by the person that posted it)

Edited by Racer28173

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Regardless there is nothing that the driver of this car could have done to warrant the action from the Honda. Just plain lapse of judgement...

 

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6 minutes ago, John Weisberg said:

Regardless there is nothing that the driver of this car could have done to warrant the action from the Honda. Just plain lapse of judgement...

 

 

First forum post yet so much wisdom and clarity! 😂

 

Maybe that was his way of teaching the BMW how to use a turn signal....

 

Kind of too bad, looked like the two cars were having a good battle to start the race.

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I'm not saying this is the case here but I have seen two videos before where in both it was 100% the other drivers fault.  

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Yellow car is 100% at fault as they actually initiated the contact.   At first I thought he may have misjudged clearing the camera car but then I noticed his hand was out the window and he actually swerved at the camera car and initiated the contact.   This driver should honestly get a couple race ban from the series.   There is NO place for that.   Deliberate contact should be met with immediate consequences. 

 

All that being said the driver of the camera car was out there driving their own race.   I watched the longer video and i don't think they checked their mirrors once.   That is dangerous and frustrating but no excuse for deliberately hitting someone.  

Edited by Snake
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This happened on lap 7 when Nigel/Mini/Yellow car were running 1-2-3, navigating through the traffic.  (Mini passed Nigel for the lead). All cars had "momentum".  You just don't hit other people intentionally. This was extremely dangerous and could have ended much worse for all the cars around the Honda. 

 

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Snake, I have to disagree. Watch again. Cam car driver is checking mirror every time the car gets straight. You can see a slight head tilt. Yes aggressive but also clean. This is in great contrast to the Honda that almost runs over the red "thing" and then again the blue Corvette. Both of those cars were on the slow side of the pace and the guys that were paying attention knew it and were able to pass them cleanly. Yellow guy not so much... That would indicate to me that he might be looking a bit to much down the hood. Had to see what coming at you when you do that.

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We have a containment seat and with HANS on you just barely can move your head so it is impossible to tell how often a driver checks the mirrors from the camera point of view.

Just one example, check 2:29 and compare it with 4:53. At 2:29 Nigel leaves the door open for the Honda (turn 9A) . Normal line is at 4:53. Clearly aware of what is going on around him.

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2 minutes ago, pj3 said:

We have a containment seat and with HANS on you just barely can move your head so it is impossible to tell how often a driver checks the mirrors from the camera point of view.

Just one example, check 2:29 and compare it with 4:53. At 2:29 Nigel leaves the door open for the Honda (turn 9A) . Normal line is at 4:53. Clearly aware of what is going on around him.

 

 I watched the video as well and this statement is true!  Red Cow gave the Prelude more than enough room to execute a clean pass and complete the pass. Two corners later the Prelude locks up to keep from driving in to the back of the Corvette when there were TWO clear lines for him to take.

 

 All the Prelude had to do to avoid his own wreck was keep his left hand on the steering wheel and stay on the inside for the next corner.

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I like that the car in front of them when the crash happens is the one with the note on the back that says "Don't get riggity riggity wrecked"

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55 minutes ago, John Weisberg said:

Snake, I have to disagree. 

 

That's fine, we can agree to disagree.   I'm not saying the camera car is in any way responsible for the contact.   But, they need to work on their awareness imo.    Coming down on and blocking someone that many times that quickly is a recipe for disaster.  If they were aware as you say, they aren't going to finish too many endurance races as there will be contact eventually.    

Edited by Snake
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It seems to me that the only time that the Honda was able to make time on the Bmw was when the BMW hit traffic, clearly indicating that the BMW is the faster car and that he is approaching the traffic with some trepidation and caution. I was doing much the same knowing that there are a lot of competitors with little to no experience W2W racing. Using slower cars as a pick is a bit of a DH move and really unfair to the slower guy.

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1 hour ago, Racer28173 said:

@snake and I have many podiums between us in this series (not on the same teams).   We should probably shut up and accept that we just don’t know anything about Endurance racing...

 

Carry on!

 

Having only read, and not I watched, I'd have agreed with you.  After watching, I think Nigel was doing just fine watching.  They were quite easily able to get by the prelude early, and the prelude only hung on by overdriving the car and getting lucky with traffic.

 

You can use the argument that you can't keep closing the door like that, but had they let it by, they'd be slowing themself up, and would be in no less danger from an accident when the prelude inevitably plows into the back or side of someone else and they get collected.

 

The prelude driver is clearly no good under pressure, whether in leading or following.  Its all over the track, appears to be overdriving the car, and is wildly aggressive.  I think a couple race ban would absolutely be within reason.  100% fault for sure.  I know I have no interest in sharing the track with that driver.  They should be ashamed of themselves.

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That type of action would result in a series ban or, at the very least, a serious suspension in many other racing series.  I've seen multi-race or even season suspensions for much less.  BCCR 1.3.7 (Unsafe Driver) certainly applies here and this driver should be excused from future events.  Intentionally wrecking another car is unacceptable.

 

The instant karma on this one is priceless.  It was reported to me that a similar incident happened to one of our cars this past weekend at WGI.  A driver of another car body slammed our car 602 while waving his fist at our driver...for no apparent reason.  It resulted in a cut tire for the offending driver.  Karma is a bitch.

 

We need to weed-out these guys who are driving in the red mist.  Chill out.  Take a breath.  It's a long race.

 

As a note, our drivers reported mostly good behavior by the other drivers on the track.  We had some guys who were new to ChampCar and they left with smiles on their faces and a very good view of ChampCar.

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Karma and the wall have already given that guy and his team a break from racing...If they have video to add to this, his team may already be tormenting him on levels that none of us here are capable of.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Round3Racing said:

That type of action would result in a series ban or, at the very least, a serious suspension in many other racing series.  I've seen multi-race or even season suspensions for much less.  BCCR 1.3.7 (Unsafe Driver) certainly applies here and this driver should be excused from future events.  Intentionally wrecking another car is unacceptable.

 

The instant karma on this one is priceless.  It was reported to me that a similar incident happened to one of our cars this past weekend at WGI.  A driver of another car body slammed our car 602 while waving his fist at our driver...for no apparent reason.  It resulted in a cut tire for the offending driver.  Karma is a bitch.

 

We need to weed-out these guys who are driving in the red mist.  Chill out.  Take a breath.  It's a long race.

 

As a note, our drivers reported mostly good behavior by the other drivers on the track.  We had some guys who were new to ChampCar and they left with smiles on their faces and a very good view of ChampCar.

 

I was in the 626 maxima and came in contact with one of your cars in the laces near the end of the race. Our GoPro died so we dont have footage, if you have some would love to see it. Apologies for the contact, I think it was a racing incident in a tight pack, we just got our rear bumper rubbed. 

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5 hours ago, pj3 said:

How not to behave. Overly aggressive block turned into a hit and a wrecked #531. It is hard to believe but the #531 blamed us for the accident. Thanks to this footage, we got "all clear" for our driver from Mike.

 

What not to do, my goodness. I saw the wreck and wondered how he managed to do that. 

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8 minutes ago, Axxe said:

 

I was in the 626 maxima and came in contact with one of your cars in the laces near the end of the race. Our GoPro died so we dont have footage, if you have some would love to see it. Apologies for the contact, I think it was a racing incident in a tight pack, we just got our rear bumper rubbed. 

 

The incident that I was referring to happened between turns 9 and 10 and happened with our silver car.  Definitely wasn't you.  I got the report of your incident with our white car and he also said that it was just racing.  No big deal.  Thanks for the note, though.  I'll see about getting the video and I will send you a message with a link, if we're able to find it.

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Be interesting to hear from Nigel (or see video from outside of camera car), I agree it looked like he was "chopping" the yellow car at times but I think that might just be the perspective of the camera and seeing the yellow car bounce in-and-out of the mirrors. It might not have actually been that close. 

 

With that being said, yellow car was definitely over driving and red-misting. Honestly, after seeing whatever you call that move with the blue Vette in T11, I would have been giving him tons of room. 

 

Be following this to see if the powers-that-be step in on this one, as others have said it was pretty blatant and has no place in Champcar. 

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1 hour ago, Axxe said:

 

I was in the 626 maxima and came in contact with one of your cars in the laces near the end of the race. Our GoPro died so we dont have footage, if you have some would love to see it. Apologies for the contact, I think it was a racing incident in a tight pack, we just got our rear bumper rubbed. 

I'll check, may have video of this incident as it happened right in front of me.  I was driving 918 Visceral Porsche.  I don't know if the camera was still running. 

If it is the incident it was 3 wide into T6.  A  Black EC BMW on the inside, one of the Cayman Porsches in the middle and the Maxima on the out side.  

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7 hours ago, Racer28173 said:

Here is the full stint.  Found it on YouTube 

Passed me clean

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I was in Bio 1 during this stint, and had a couple great battles later with the #2 Red Cow.  He raced me clean and HARD but clean.  I freaking loved it.  My hat was off to him and the 81 Honda before it crapped out.  Lots of fun.  In the video I see a lot of race craft from the camera car, cheating in a bit to not put the Prelude in a position to wreck them both.  I also see a lot of overreacting and overdriving from the soon to be wrecked Prelude.  100% fault lies with the Prelude driver IMHO as a racer.  I look forward to racing Red Cow in the future.  

Edited by Jer
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