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There's no rule governing the octane of fuel so even if they are using race fuel, it's absolutely legal.

 

 Personally, I think it goes against the spirit of Champcar and the rules, but you can't protest that. 

 

 

 

On another note; If the start/finish is waving green and the rest of the track is still double yellow, why is passing allowed before the double yellows are put away?

Edited by Richard
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As a Board member, I will tell you to find an accurate and affordable way for tech to test gas octane levels at the track.  We have a majority of members and of the Board wanting to eliminate race gas at our events, but we have to be able to enforce that rule at the track or it doesn't matter.  

Edited by Jer
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22 minutes ago, Jer said:

As a Board member, I will tell you to find an accurate and affordable way for tech to test gas octane levels at the track.  We have a majority of members and of the Board wanting to eliminate race gas at our events, but we have to be able to enforce that rule at the track or it doesn't matter.  

 

Like a moth to a flame, if a car is idling through the paddock and I smell race fuel exhaust I'm immediately drawn to it. My services don't come cheap though. 😁

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Doesn’t have to be done at the track to be enforced. As much as people say “we are racing for trophies”, we aren’t just racing for trophies. 

 

If someone wants to protest fuel then they pay $50, sample is taken at any point during the race. If that team fails to podium then the sample is dumped. If the team podiums then sample is shipped off and the teams ChampCar bucks are held until analysis is returned to CC. If the sample fails CC standards then the offending team doesn’t get their ChampCar bucks. I don’t much about fuel/additives, but I’d think an octane over 100 would be a good starting point. 

 

This is would keep ChampCar from having to invest in expensive equipment and having to test fuel themselves. $50 should also cover the shipping charges 

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21 minutes ago, jakks said:

Doesn’t have to be done at the track to be enforced. As much as people say “we are racing for trophies”, we aren’t just racing for trophies. 

 

If someone wants to protest fuel then they pay $50, sample is taken at any point during the race. If that team fails to podium then the sample is dumped. If the team podiums then sample is shipped off and the teams ChampCar bucks are held until analysis is returned to CC. If the sample fails CC standards then the offending team doesn’t get their ChampCar bucks. I don’t much about fuel/additives, but I’d think an octane over 100 would be a good starting point. 

 

This is would keep ChampCar from having to invest in expensive equipment and having to test fuel themselves. $50 should also cover the shipping charges 

That might be the best idea I have heard on that to be honest. 

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2 hours ago, Jer said:

As a Board member, I will tell you to find an accurate and affordable way for tech to test gas octane levels at the track.  We have a majority of members and of the Board wanting to eliminate race gas at our events, but we have to be able to enforce that rule at the track or it doesn't matter.  

Jerry, a good clue is reading the SCCA rule book regarding the matter. Worst case you take random samples from teams and send them off to get tested.

 

1 hour ago, jakks said:

Doesn’t have to be done at the track to be enforced. As much as people say “we are racing for trophies”, we aren’t just racing for trophies. 

 

If someone wants to protest fuel then they pay $50, sample is taken at any point during the race. If that team fails to podium then the sample is dumped. If the team podiums then sample is shipped off and the teams ChampCar bucks are held until analysis is returned to CC. If the sample fails CC standards then the offending team doesn’t get their ChampCar bucks. I don’t much about fuel/additives, but I’d think an octane over 100 would be a good starting point. 

 

This is would keep ChampCar from having to invest in expensive equipment and having to test fuel themselves. $50 should also cover the shipping charges 

^Yes I was about to say something along these lines, no need for expensive test equipment.

 

SCCA says:

"9.3.25. FUEL All cars shall use fuel, as defined below, unless a specific exemption is made in the provisions for a specific category/class. A. Permitted Fuel Permitted fuel is herein defined as gasoline or diesel fuel meeting specified dielectric constant standards and not containing any prohibited substance in excess of stated limits. Gasoline is a mixture of refined hydrocarbons. Gasoline is an electrical insulator and its relative effectiveness as an insulator is represented by its dielectric constant (D.C.). The D.C. of gasoline will be measured by an SCCA Fuel Check Meter (Precision Fuel Testing G-01 Fuel Analyzer, Kavlico FT-K01 Fuel Tester, Digatron DT-47FT fuel tester or Digatron FT-64 fuel tester). The 0 (zero) calibration of the SCCA Fuel Check Meter is set against reagent or laboratory grade cyclohexane. Gasoline may be tested and certified at SCCA events by the determination of the dielectric constant using the SCCA Fuel Check meter and through the application of various chemical analyses. If a competitor’s fuel is not compliant with the fuel standards below, the Race Director or Chief Steward shall take appropriate action (Chief Steward’s Action or Request for Action). In addition, fuel may be subject to laboratory testing. If a car is required to run diesel fuel, it will be noted on its specification line. Diesel fuels must have a dielectric constant between 2.2 and 4.9 (G-01 or FTK-01) or between 24 and 55 (DT-47FT or FT-64). Diesel fuels are subject to the same restrictions on prohibited substances as gasoline. Any participant may protest the fuel in any car to determine compliance with the provisions of these fuel rules. In addition to the standard protest fee, a bond shall be collected from the protestor and the driver or entrant of the protested car. The bond covers the cost of laboratory testing of the fuel sample(s) and transportation costs. The laboratory testing shall be limited to determining the presence of any prohibited substance in excess of the allowed amount. If the test is negative, the protestor’s bond will be used to pay the laboratory fees and transportation. If the test is positive (any banned substance present in excess of the stated limits), the protested driver’s or entrant’s bond will be used to pay the laboratory fees and transportation costs. The unused bond will be returned. In the case of a CSA or RFA resulting in laboratory testing, the organizing Region shall take the role of the protestor. If the laboratory results show that the protested fuel is non-compliant, the Chief Steward or the SOM shall assess appropriate penalties. The amount of each bond is $250."

 

All classes\\ Gasoline with or without added oil\\ DC max G-01 or FTK-01: 15 DT-47FT or FT-64: 166

Edited by morganf
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I like it.  As a Board we are trying really hard to be careful not to create rules (more rules?) that are unenforcable.  We know there are testing places but unsure of the cost.  Maybe set the allowable octane banned at anything above 95.  If you set it at 100, then teams will mix.  

 

Still doesn't allow the winning team to celebrate at the race, nor get the big trophy, but it's a start.  In fact a positive test could lead to a one year ban or something too, which adds some teeth to NOT using it.  I will of course bring it back up to the Board at the next meeting.  I have a list.  

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28 minutes ago, Jer said:

I like it.  As a Board we are trying really hard to be careful not to create rules (more rules?) that are unenforcable.  We know there are testing places but unsure of the cost.  Maybe set the allowable octane banned at anything above 95.  If you set it at 100, then teams will mix.  

 

Still doesn't allow the winning team to celebrate at the race, nor get the big trophy, but it's a start.  In fact a positive test could lead to a one year ban or something too, which adds some teeth to NOT using it.  I will of course bring it back up to the Board at the next meeting.  I have a list.  

There are tools to enforce the octane rating of fuel.  http://www.zeltex.com/ I sent this link to Mike after the board meeting last month.  He said he would get an RFP from the company.  Not sure if anything has happened with that yet.

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

I like it.  As a Board we are trying really hard to be careful not to create rules (more rules?) that are unenforcable.  We know there are testing places but unsure of the cost.  Maybe set the allowable octane banned at anything above 95.  If you set it at 100, then teams will mix.  

 

Still doesn't allow the winning team to celebrate at the race, nor get the big trophy, but it's a start.  In fact a positive test could lead to a one year ban or something too, which adds some teeth to NOT using it.  I will of course bring it back up to the Board at the next meeting.  I have a list.  

 

The only downside I see of setting it to 95 is that some tracks don't have anything lower than 98.  The lowest octane at RA was 98 onsite.  We goofed up once and had to use that for a whole fuel up.  At $9.85 a gallon or whatever it was it was a painful mistake already.  I would hate to be dq'd from a race because we needed track fuel in a pinch.

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10 minutes ago, Clueless Racing said:

 

The only downside I see of setting it to 95 is that some tracks don't have anything lower than 98.  The lowest octane at RA was 98 onsite.  We goofed up once and had to use that for a whole fuel up.  At $9.85 a gallon or whatever it was it was a painful mistake already.  I would hate to be dq'd from a race because we needed track fuel in a pinch.

There was fuel in town, ten minutes away.  They must make a killing on our race weekends because every pump was humming at 6:30 AM.  

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This was the first race for Bulldog Racing after totaling the car 1 year ago at WGI in the Sunday rain. We rebuilt and spent the end of 2018 and start of 2019 with track days to shake out all the kinks of the new build.

 

However we did not find all the kinks.....

 

As the Friday test session wore on, drivers noted a slow loss in engine power followed by running on 5 cylinders. We pulled plugs and found #2 cyl wet. Thinking it was just fouled up, we replaced and took a lap around the garages. Still only 5 cyl. So we yanked the valve cover and discovered the #2 intake rocker shoe was gone, the rocker arm being pulverized by the cam lobe. We had spare rockers but no spare cam. Brian at Shut Up Racing drove to his house and brought us a fresh camshaft! We reassembled and at 9pm Friday night, cranked the engine to test then break-in the cam. Oil pressure was good at the start, however 10min in to 2500rpm high idle, pressure drops to 5psi. We shut down the engine and begin to diagnose. thinking the debris from the rockers/camshaft failure created a clog in the system, We purged the sender line, bypassed the cooler and replaced the oil filter.

 

No dice.

 

So we drop the front subframe to drop the oil pan to get at the oil pump. The gear faces looked great, the housing body wasn't the worst I've seen. We were stumped. We shone a light at the bypass valve in the pump housing and saw daylight. It seems debris from the cam failure lodged itself in the valve seat of the bypass, preventing oil pressure from being generated and dumping oil back into the pan. At this point it was 12am and everyone had gone home except for the team who threw a rod in their m20 motor (I think it was #35 Step Brothers Racing). I asked if they had a spare oil pump...."yea, it's in the trash can outside, it's yours!"

 

...so I dug in the trash to find a very glittery oil pump with crap all inside of it. However, the lower section with the bypass was very clean! So we cleaned that part up and threw the pump together, reinstalled the pump and oil pan then cranked the engine.

 

ALL THE OIL PRESSURES!!!

 

At this point it was 1.45am and Chris G and I were dead tired and agreed to come back and hit it hard first thing in the morning. We started working at 7am and missed the race start by 10 minutes, I was ecstatic! Saturday went well, at the 1hr mark, the exhaust decided to fail at the weld joint ahead of the muffler. We lost an hour trying to fix it with aluminum flashing, but that decided to fall off somewhere around the 4hr mark (Sorry if anyone ran over our muffler). It seems the e30 can run with no muffler @ WGI just fine. Still more quiet than that gen1 RX7. We finished Saturday in 69th (giggity) place with a 4th gear that was slowly becoming non-existent. Post-race inspection found the rear CV boot let go spraying grease everywhere. So a new axel was installed and basic work was done (new front pads, new trans fluid).

 

Sunday Chris G started (his first race start) and did a great job, but radioed in to say 4th gear was pretty much gone. Myself and Sean S ran the remainder of the race using only 3rd and 5th gear on the car. It was a learning experience on adapting my racing line due to crap corner exit speed. Sorry to anyone that we were racing with.

 

 

Huge thank you to Brian @ Shut Up Racing for the camshaft, Will G @ GWR for the help with a quick cam removal and #35 Step Brothers Racing for the trashcan oil pump! Thanks to Champcar staff for a great weekend.

 

Next race is Thompson 12h, but I will be at VIR 24h supporting GWR.

 

-Mike

IMG_7343.JPG

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

There was fuel in town, ten minutes away.  They must make a killing on our race weekends because every pump was humming at 6:30 AM.  

 

I know there was fuel in town.  We used that for all but one pit stop.  The point I was making was that if you HAD to buy track fuel in a pinch it would suck to get in trouble because the octane was high.

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8 minutes ago, Clueless Racing said:

 

I know there was fuel in town.  We used that for all but one pit stop.  The point I was making was that if you HAD to buy track fuel in a pinch it would suck to get in trouble because the octane was high.

Run whatever fuel you want. Just don’t podium is what my thought and petition will be for next year unless the Board decides to jump on it first. 

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Team Hugh Jass checking in here. What a disappointing weekend from us - we have been working on a new engine swap for our car this season and were right up against it coming into the weekend. A failed TPS nixed our only chance at dyno tuning the week before the race and so we arrived with a car that we knew would prove a potential handful for the weekend.

 

Team worked hard on Friday morning to get it running, having to replace the O2 sensor, but the first lap of practice revealed a fuel delivery issue above ~70mph. Investigating this revealed a bad alternator (replaced), a bad battery (that the bad alternator killed), and some bad wiring in the harness. We found a dyno shop open late in Rochester and headed there to see if we could have some running to let the autotune software calibrate itself. Saturday we lined up at the back of the field, still not sure if the issue would reappear - sure enough it did and we had to pull off on the pace lap and return to the garage. Worked on the same issue throughout Saturday and into the wee small hours; relocating wires/grounds, and constantly trying to figure out the optimal MS3 settings.

 

Car was running more smoothly on Sunday morning but the fuel delivery issue was still present at higher speeds/rpms; we worked on it for the morning before finally admitting defeat and packing up the trailer. We were all excited to be at our first race of 2019, with members coming in from all down the East Coast, and it is bitterly disappointing to leave without completing a single lap. It is the first event where we've ever had this many problems with the car and it really sucks! Thank you to all the racers who offered us advice and assistance, and to the ChampCar staff for running the event. We have a plan for moving forward with the issues and are confident we can be running and ready to go for Indy.

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27 minutes ago, Rapido said:

Team Hugh Jass checking in here. What a disappointing weekend from us - we have been working on a new engine swap for our car this season and were right up against it coming into the weekend. A failed TPS nixed our only chance at dyno tuning the week before the race and so we arrived with a car that we knew would prove a potential handful for the weekend.

 

Team worked hard on Friday morning to get it running, having to replace the O2 sensor, but the first lap of practice revealed a fuel delivery issue above ~70mph. Investigating this revealed a bad alternator (replaced), a bad battery (that the bad alternator killed), and some bad wiring in the harness. We found a dyno shop open late in Rochester and headed there to see if we could have some running to let the autotune software calibrate itself. Saturday we lined up at the back of the field, still not sure if the issue would reappear - sure enough it did and we had to pull off on the pace lap and return to the garage. Worked on the same issue throughout Saturday and into the wee small hours; relocating wires/grounds, and constantly trying to figure out the optimal MS3 settings.

 

Car was running more smoothly on Sunday morning but the fuel delivery issue was still present at higher speeds/rpms; we worked on it for the morning before finally admitting defeat and packing up the trailer. We were all excited to be at our first race of 2019, with members coming in from all down the East Coast, and it is bitterly disappointing to leave without completing a single lap. It is the first event where we've ever had this many problems with the car and it really sucks! Thank you to all the racers who offered us advice and assistance, and to the ChampCar staff for running the event. We have a plan for moving forward with the issues and are confident we can be running and ready to go for Indy

I am curious about the troubles you have had with megasquirt. I am a jeweler but yet  I was able to get it working on my BMW. PM me with the problems and maybe I can help 

-wes

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