Jump to content
Bill Strong

Handling EC cars in our series - Part 2

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Morgan said:

 

I've been to a number of the awards ceremonies and even so, EC was always presented as the overall winner, because, well they're first and they got a trophy. Then the classes following that. Nobody said I was planning on winning with a new car and a new team, in fact I fully expect to not. For our team, EC is just a way to get the team some experience to then figure out how to be competitive.

In my 30 plus races, I have never seen ec presented as the overall winner.  I have seen ec presented as the ec class winner.

 

He'll, I don't think I have seen ec in impound too many times if ever.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, tdh136 said:

I'm not too concerned about sahleens showing up with a 2.9 l Porsche at the race they sponsers with 3 other legal champcar that they race.

 

I don't think anybody had a problem with their car being in the race.

 

The problem is the confusion it caused in the overall standings.  

 

You don't need a 75k$ car to compete.  You can run at the front for 10k$ or less still.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

In my 30 plus races, I have never seen ec presented as the overall winner.  I have seen ec presented as the ec class winner.

 

He'll, I don't think I have seen ec in impound too many times if ever.  

Agreed.  Also, EC has NEVER received the big first place trophy. Nor the 2nd or 3rd place trophies.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I'm not too concerned about sahleens showing up with a 2.9 l Porsche at the race they sponsers with 3 other legal champcar that they race.

 

I don't think anybody had a problem with their car being in the race.

 

The problem is the confusion it caused in the overall standings.  

 

You don't need a 75k$ car to compete.  You can run at the front for 10k$ or less still.

Three problems (thanks for starting this): 1) standings were jumbled as you noted, screwing up the broadcast, 2) Afterwards, they bragged about their win in numerous places, including on the actual winner's Facebook thread, further perpetuating the myth that they actually won, and 3) the standings in retrospect list the EC car as the winner.  So the actual winners, GWR and Tuttle, have to try to explain that to their sponsors, friends and family. 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jer said:

Three problems (thanks for starting this): 1) standings were jumbled as you noted, screwing up the broadcast, 2) Afterwards, they bragged about their win in numerous places, including on the actual winner's Facebook thread, further perpetuating the myth that they actually won, and 3) the standings in retrospect list the EC car as the winner.  So the actual winners, GWR and Tuttle, have to try to explain that to their sponsors, friends and family. 

I agree with you.  I'm just saying the car itself wasn't the issue.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until I read this thread , I never knew we were not class racing....always wondered why the class awards paled in contrast to the overall...Now I know, regardless we are still racing for a class victory , and enjoy a good overall finish position also....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Morgan said:

I've been to a number of the awards ceremonies and even so, EC was always presented as the overall winner, because, well they're first and they got a trophy. Then the classes following that. 

giphy.gif

 EC doesn't "win" overall. They're not presented as the OA winner. Ever. They 1st place EC car would win an EC class trophy. That's it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, ablesnead said:

Until I read this thread , I never knew we were not class racing....always wondered why the class awards paled in contrast to the overall...Now I know, regardless we are still racing for a class victory , and enjoy a good overall finish position also....

@Bill Strong @chisek @E. Tyler Pedersen @Jer @Doc

this is why section 2.3 of the rulebook needs to emphasize overall winner and how the competiton works, and then later on explain that there is a further breakdown by displacement to make a small, less important ‘race within a race’ for somewhat similarly size cars. This section should also emphasize that the classes do not differentiate on performance or expected finishing position, because the whole point of the VPI and points system and what makes ChampCar unique, is that a huge variety of cars can be built and raced against each other competitively. 

Edited by enginerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jer said:

Three problems (thanks for starting this): 1) standings were jumbled as you noted, screwing up the broadcast, 2) Afterwards, they bragged about their win in numerous places, including on the actual winner's Facebook thread, further perpetuating the myth that they actually won, and 3) the standings in retrospect list the EC car as the winner.  So the actual winners, GWR and Tuttle, have to try to explain that to their sponsors, friends and family. 

 

Don't forget the mess it makes during FCY when you’re the 500 point car leader and you’re looking to pick up the pace car but it picks up the EC car “overall” leader.

Then you have the issue of gaining or losing a lap over the 500 point car due to the pace car picking up the EC car. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ronh911 said:

 

Don't forget the mess it makes during FCY when you’re the 500 point car leader and you’re looking to pick up the pace car but it picks up the EC car “overall” leader.

Then you have the issue of gaining or losing a lap over the 500 point car due to the pace car picking up the EC car. 

This!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Richard's suggestion of adding a bunch of laps to EC cars is really simple and innovative (as far as I can tell, it hadn't been discussed before).  It keeps EC cars out of the top of the standings so classed cars aren't affected in EC leading FCY situations.  There's no uncertainty at the end about who was the overall winner, 2nd, 3rd etc is.  Scoring the EC cars in a separate race as opposed to relegating them to the bottom allows for the same situation where EC cars can claim they won since the final results will reflect an ec class car in first place.  If they want to see how they stack up with ec cars, they can check the class grouping just like any of the other classes.  

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, macheesy said:

@Richard's suggestion of adding a bunch of laps to EC cars is really simple and innovative (as far as I can tell, it hadn't been discussed before). 

 

I don't know who macheesy is, but I like him.

#EC -100laps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, National Tech said:

Should this not wait until petition time

 

Why wait 1.5 years to fix an issue membership has identified now?    Now would be the time to make a decision on this and make an announcement for the 2020 season.   Gives teams 6  months notice to make changed if they want or need to?     This should be discussed at the next BOD meeting and a decision should be made.   That decision could be that the series isn't doing anything.  But it should at least be addressed.   Waiting 1.5 years doesn't' make sense. 

Edited by Snake
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

Why wait 1.5 years to fix an issue membership has identified now?    Now would be the time to make a decision on this and make an announcement for the 2020 season.   Gives teams 6  months notice to make changed if they want or need to?   

Agreed- this only impacts how EC cars are handled on T&S.  Why not do it at the next race as a trial at least.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as EC cars are not a part of the main race, I don't see why this can't be handled now as it's become a bigger problem all of sudden.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys we are not waiting.  We are implementing a possible solution starting at NCM.  Let's see how it goes.  If it doesn't get the job done, we will take further action.  

  • Like 22
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This reminds me of the WRL race at Road Atlanta a couple of years ago that had 2 Radical race cars running with us. I know a few of y'all were there for that one. Surprise they finished 1 & 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, BigMoneyWasters said:

This reminds me of the WRL race at Road Atlanta a couple of years ago that had 2 Radical race cars running with us. I know a few of y'all were there for that one. Surprise they finished 1 & 2.

I was there.  Because WRL focuses on classes, I didn't really care about them.  In our series the focus is on overall, so it's a much more prominent issue.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Needs to be 1000 laps, 100 isn't enough to keep them from getting jumbled at some tracks.  Just my $.02

 

-Rich

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, riche30 said:

Needs to be 1000 laps, 100 isn't enough to keep them from getting jumbled at some tracks.  Just my $.02

 

-Rich

 

Agree

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Huggy said:

Agree

 

You guys all see that, right?  Huggy and I agreed on something today.

  • Haha 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, riche30 said:

Needs to be 1000 laps, 100 isn't enough to keep them from getting jumbled at some tracks.  Just my $.02

-Rich

Jumbled yes, confused with First place no. 1000 laps would mean they will end the race with negative laps.
EC cars are regular cars with more than a 50 lap penalty. So there would be no other cars with between negative 50 and 100 laps.
2.3.5. ChampCar also offers the “Exception Class” designated as “EC” for cars exceeding 1000 points or teams not wishing to compete for a podium position

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...