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Bill Strong

Handling EC cars in our series - Part 2

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38 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

In the rest of the free world the car that completes the most laps is the winner, you need to accept that the way we do it is unusual.

That is exactly why it is important that our live timing and post-race results display accurately.

We can’t expect the rest of the free world to know that caymans aren’t the actual winners of ChampCar races when they show up at the top of the standings. 

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6 minutes ago, enginerd said:

That is exactly why it is important that our live timing and post-race results display accurately.

We can’t expect the rest of the free world to know that caymans aren’t the actual winners of ChampCar races when they show up at the top of the standings. 

Resolving this confusion by publishing official results would also help with season points for championships, Mazda contingency etc. 

Speedhive could just disappear tomorrow, or change how they decide to display things, or start charging a subscription fee :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, ABR-Glen said:

In the rest of the free world the car that completes the most laps is the winner, you need to accept that the way we do it is unusual.

As I have suggested previously CC can get around this limitation of 3rd party software by publishing it's own official results and present them however they want.

Speedhive is just a user friendly (debatable) collection of transponder hits. 

 

Some sponsorships require Speedhive results because they are unbiased, and have a uniform output format, and basically every type of racing uses them except stage rally.

 

If I'm someone who's running EC I'm more concerned with my actual performance during the race, so I can communicate with drivers and know how the car is doing vs seeing the results on SH.

 

Unless we start attaching real limits on EC instead of it just being an outlaw class, nobody should really be taking their EC results to sponsors, so SHs default window should show ABCD cars.

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Few thoughts to add to the 15 pages of discussion. 

 

1. EC isn't a class. There are no rules outside safety for them to meet. Allowing them to run with us is good for everyone, but the suggestion to add 100 laps is excellent as it clears up any issue with displayed standings [among the top cars].

2. If an EC car doesn't like the 100 laps they can almost without exception run in a class with penalty laps based on tech assignment.  Instead of 100 laps down they can be 10, 20, etc laps down based on classing.  A 500 point car with reliability, suspension, and aero upgrades is typicalling going to be in the 10-25 range. 

3. If someone can't be bothered to spend 1 hr doing one time paper work figuring out how their 1000+ hr build car fits within classing with penalty laps see point 1. 

 

Edited by veris
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On 6/15/2019 at 12:20 PM, Rick.Cook23@yahoo.com said:

Couldn’t we jus not put a transponder on the EC cars? Not timed, not scored, no placement.

Results would show only the cars with transponders.

 

When all the EC cars stop showing up, have fun with the 20% entry fee increase that comes with that wonderful idea.

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On 6/7/2019 at 3:35 PM, Jer said:

It's not, our first attempt will be effective at NCM.  This is procedural.  

 

How did it end up?

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32 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Not trying to poke the hornets nest but EC car is still top of speed hive..

Yes it is.  Not sure what to say. 

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12 minutes ago, Jer said:

Yes it is.  Not sure what to say. 

Adding 100/500/1000 laps fixes that.

 

Curious, what did you guys experiment with @ NCM?

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If you can add a single lap to the Saturday winner then it can't be that difficult to add a few more laps to the EC cars so that the true leader/winner shows up first, both in live timing and the results.

 

 

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3 hours ago, red0 said:

 

How did it end up?

Sounds like the first attempt hasn't happened yet. To be fair no one said NCM 2019, you all assumed 2019.

Edited by morganf
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18 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

When all the EC cars stop showing up, have fun with the 20% entry fee increase that comes with that wonderful idea.

 

Im not against EC cars, I’m not.  Heck, I’ve raced other series in my Champ car were everything I raced against would be EC (WRL).

But EC cars should not be included in the results.  Just trying to suggest a way to make that happen.

 

I checked last 4 Champ races.  Only 10% of the cars were EC, and entry makes up only about 25% of my overall cost each race.

Tires, fuel, oil, brakes, maintenance, travel, towing... all that makes up the other 75%. Number of cars on the grid has never changed

my entry fees - up nor down - but if it did, it would be minimal compared to all the other costs.

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If the Jeep Cherokee is really an SC400 with a Jeep body, do they make a swap calculator for swapping bodies? My BMW is kind of an E46 with an E30  body, so.....?

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2 hours ago, BigMoneyWasters said:

If the Jeep Cherokee is really an SC400 with a Jeep body, do they make a swap calculator for swapping bodies? My BMW is kind of an E46 with an E30  body, so.....?

They ran it as a Tuna Slapper 3000 in EC so....

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11 hours ago, BigMoneyWasters said:

If the Jeep Cherokee is really an SC400 with a Jeep body, do they make a swap calculator for swapping bodies? My BMW is kind of an E46 with an E30  body, so.....?

 

9 hours ago, Jer said:

They ran it as a Tuna Slapper 3000 in EC so....

This is good, in the "How to Handle EC cars" Thread someone looked at the NCM results and asked how it got a body swap done for points. You cann't see right away that first place was an EC car.
image.thumb.png.2ced952ec9c39ea27d262f573dcb46f2.png.

Edited by morganf
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1 hour ago, morganf said:

You cann't see right away that first place was an EC car.

image.thumb.png.2ced952ec9c39ea27d262f573dcb46f2.png.

 

Someone enters the stuff in. Put the class at the beginning of the team name. 

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So near the end of Sundays race I was sitting inside with a driver from the HoChunk Jeep and would like to share some comments as I was just a listener, a couple of other teams adding to conversation as well as Jay( National Tech).

 

The driver of the EC team said look we won the race!!!!! He was all pumped up and then he was told how so your EC and aren't even in the race. He replied well the results show we turned the most laps and shows we are first and in my book that means we won.

Jay looked over and said no not really in our org you did not win and you might just keep it quite as 111 won the race.

 

Long and short is EC still thinks they are in the race and turning the most laps wins.

I walked away and left the discussion as I had nothing good to add and just wanted to share the mind set.

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6 minutes ago, 55mini said:

So near the end of Sundays race I was sitting inside with a driver from the HoChunk Jeep and would like to share some comments as I was just a listener, a couple of other teams adding to conversation as well as Jay( National Tech).

 

The driver of the EC team said look we won the race!!!!! He was all pumped up and then he was told how so your EC and aren't even in the race. He replied well the results show we turned the most laps and shows we are first and in my book that means we won.

 Jay looked over and said no not really in our org you did not win and you might just keep it quite as 111 won the race.

  

Long and short is EC still thinks they are in the race and turning the most laps wins.

I walked away and left the discussion as I had nothing good to add and just wanted to share the mind set.

 

image.png.cad12b0417df70c26284aea0b502df

 

It sure looks like the #120 car won to me. Are you supposed to read the rule book in order to understand the results? No. You look at position #1 in the results, and that is the winner. 

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3 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

image.png.cad12b0417df70c26284aea0b502df

 

It sure looks like the #120 car won to me. Are you supposed to read the rule book in order to understand the results? No. You look at position #1 in the results, and that is the winner. 

I had high hopes that it was going to be fixed.  Oh well.   

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Andrew yes I fully agree just pointing out that the change that was thought to happen did not and sharing the EC teams comments.

 

Very confusing to all!!!  Some one needs to fix it.

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So this "new" problem has been around since at least 2011 (did we even have an EC class before that?). Maybe just go back to putting (EC) in the team name like ETR suggested, I don't remember it confusing anyone back then (probably not as many people on Facebook then either...) 

 

image.thumb.png.ab7cfbf51542b3e557940dddfc34bc35.png

image.thumb.png.b1675def0c7175d5648228123707bb86.png

Edited by ABR-Glen

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41 minutes ago, 55mini said:

So near the end of Sundays race I was sitting inside with a driver from the HoChunk Jeep and would like to share some comments as I was just a listener, a couple of other teams adding to conversation as well as Jay( National Tech).

 

The driver of the EC team said look we won the race!!!!! He was all pumped up and then he was told how so your EC and aren't even in the race. He replied well the results show we turned the most laps and shows we are first and in my book that means we won.

Jay looked over and said no not really in our org you did not win and you might just keep it quite as 111 won the race.

 

Long and short is EC still thinks they are in the race and turning the most laps wins.

I walked away and left the discussion as I had nothing good to add and just wanted to share the mind set.

 

Yeah, he represents the whole of EC.  

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29 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

So this "new" problem has been around since at least 2011 (did we even have an EC class before that?). Maybe just go back to putting (EC) in the team name like ETR suggested, I don't remember it confusing anyone back then (probably not as many people on Facebook then either...) 

  

image.thumb.png.ab7cfbf51542b3e557940dddfc34bc35.png

image.thumb.png.b1675def0c7175d5648228123707bb86.png


Come on, don't use examples when we finished 10th and 11th place! 

image.png.bb811e71786ba94e9c1f8aa4191f0f4f.png

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1 minute ago, red0 said:


Come on, don't use examples when we finished 10th and 11th place! 

 

 

Why not?  Those are great examples of positions it would be nice for you guys to finish in.

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