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Bill Strong

Handling EC cars in our series - Part 2

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Other than I think it's annoying to have to figure out where my "real standings" are during the race....I don't have a problem with any EC cars racing in the series.  They never have an impact on all the FUN I have at the races, which is the main reason I show up.

 

I would probably lose all respect for an EC team that tried to claim an overall win, but I don't lump all EC teams together like that.  All of the ones I've met have been cool in the pits and fun to race with on the track.

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I can't understand why we are still talking about taking laps away from the EC cars when it is the simplest solution to an easily corrected problem. They managed to separate the results without any issue so why not do the right thing and start all EC cars 50 laps down.

 

 

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1 hour ago, skierman64 said:

 

Do you have an objection to how EC was handled at Indy?  

 

My only comment is they pulled EC out of the standings before the end of the race so EC could not execute strategy or see how we were doing the final 45 minutes of the race.  That's BS.  
 

Leave EC in race monitor just as they were all race long, but before posting the results, put EC in a different batch of cars.  

 

 

Wooooooow.  As an EC team, if we flat out disappeared off race monitor in the last 45 minutes I’d be PISSED.  

 

We know our place, and that’s ok. But this vocal minority is also so worried about what we think and how we describe our results, it’s gonna go too far and backfire.  I’m ok with being put in some other category and/or 100 laps, but it’s my story and I’ll tell it how I want.  Deal with it. 

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8 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

EC isn't required to calculate points.  I can opt to not compete for the overall win.  

If you have an automatic EC disqualifier then add 100 Laps, greater than 1000pts=100laps, 500-1000=appropriate Laps with no option to "just be EC". 

Additionally, eliminate EC class win. 

 

@Jer, why is this still an issue?  Sorry to single you out but you are the best about being transparent in a member owned organization. 

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56 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

EC isn't required to calculate points.  I can opt to not compete for the overall win.  

 

If you are in EC, you are not competing, let alone competing for overall win...

 

I think it even says that in the rulebook....

 

 

Edit:  I'm gonna leave this comment, but I'm pretty sure I misunderstood this particular point.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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2 hours ago, skierman64 said:

 

Do you have an objection to how EC was handled at Indy?  

 

My only comment is they pulled EC out of the standings before the end of the race so EC could not execute strategy or see how we were doing the final 45 minutes of the race.  That's BS.  
 

Leave EC in race monitor just as they were all race long, but before posting the results, put EC in a different batch of cars.  

Mike, please let Mike C know your opinions and solutions.  Adding laps, maybe?  

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1 hour ago, Richard said:

I can't understand why we are still talking about taking laps away from the EC cars when it is the simplest solution to an easily corrected problem. They managed to separate the results without any issue so why not do the right thing and start all EC cars 50 laps down.

 

 

Please send it to Mike.  I've said my piece and we will discuss EC again in a month I'm certain.  The goal of course is to find a way to get EC out of the standings without completely disenfranchising EC teams from playing with us. 

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1 hour ago, Hurljohn said:

 

@Jer, why is this still an issue?  Sorry to single you out but you are the best about being transparent in a member owned organization. 

Mike has not wanted to add 100 laps or whatever yet, he wanted to try other things first.  Trust me its on the table and I did not get the impression Mike was against it.  I think he was trying lighter solutions in a current year ruleset with something like penalty laps added to the rules for 2020 if we go that route.  Single me out, I'll work for y'all.  I personally think the 100 lap idea is easy and the best.  I've made that opinion well known.  

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1 hour ago, Richard said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ETR said:

Wooooooow.  As an EC team, if we flat out disappeared off race monitor in the last 45 minutes I’d be PISSED.  

 

We know our place, and that’s ok. But this vocal minority is also so worried about what we think and how we describe our results, it’s gonna go too far and backfire.  I’m ok with being put in some other category and/or 100 laps, but it’s my story and I’ll tell it how I want.  Deal with it. 

 

Yeah, I wasn't real happy about that.  If I had been completing for the EC podium not being able to know where I was the last 45 minutes would not be good.  

 

5 minutes ago, Jer said:

Mike, please let Mike C know your opinions and solutions.  Adding laps, maybe?  

 

The way it was handled at Indy was perfect, except that part where we disappeared from timing and scoring the last 45 minutes of the race.  I think putting EC at the beginning of all the EC cars makes it obvious enough to everyone which cars are EC and they don't count in the overall against the Champ classed cars.  The final standings separated EC from Champ class and that was fine too.   Just don't remove us from T & S until after the race is checkered because there may be an in-class battle that requires live T&S to track the progress of the race.  

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10 minutes ago, Jer said:

Mike has not wanted to add 100 laps or whatever yet, he wanted to try other things first.  Trust me its on the table and I did not get the impression Mike was against it.  I think he was trying lighter solutions in a current year ruleset with something like penalty laps added to the rules for 2020 if we go that route.  Single me out, I'll work for y'all.  I personally think the 100 lap idea is easy and the best.  I've made that opinion well known.  

 

the 100 lap solution is fine until cars start breaking after the first 100 laps and then there's Champ classed cars in the middle of the EC standings...then it gets even more convoluted.  

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2 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

the 100 lap solution is fine until cars start breaking after the first 100 laps and then there's Champ classed cars in the middle of the EC standings...then it gets even more convoluted.  

Curious, is your car an automatic EC for disqualifing modification?  Do you have any intentions of coming into compliance with Champ rules? 

 

@Jer thank-you as always!

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Mark them EC in the standings like was done at Indy and add 1000 laps (not 100) to start. Job done.

 

If you want to unnecessarily complicate matters further, make it 1000 plus whatever their actual penalty laps would be under the rules so the EC cars can "compete" with each other on "fair" terms.

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6 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

the 100 lap solution is fine until cars start breaking after the first 100 laps and then there's Champ classed cars in the middle of the EC standings...then it gets even more convoluted.  

 

 How would the standings be convoluted if a car broke down after 100 laps?

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26 minutes ago, Hurljohn said:

Curious, is your car an automatic EC for disqualifing modification?  Do you have any intentions of coming into compliance with Champ rules? 

 

@Jer thank-you as always!

 

What's an automatic EC mod? 

 

And no, my car is built to WRL GP2 standards.  

Edited by skierman64
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BTW, my EC car was about 21st fastest on Saturday and 18th on Sunday.  There were a lot of Champ class cars that were faster.  

Edited by skierman64
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22 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

 

What's an automatic EC mod?

oversized fuel cell, carbon fiber parts. etc...

 

 

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53 minutes ago, gavro said:

Mark them EC in the standings like was done at Indy and add 1000 laps (not 100) to start. Job done.

 

IIRC if a car has penalty laps, then on RH/RM, the car will display 0 laps until the deficit is overcome.  With 1000 laps removed, EC cars would just sit at 0 laps forever, making even having them in timing and scoring pointless.

 

Do you want to run off every EC team?  Because that's how you run off every EC team.

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42 minutes ago, skierman64 said:

BTW, my EC car was about 21st fastest on Saturday and 18th on Sunday.  There were a lot of Champ class cars that were faster.  

Hey Mike!  Why is your car ec?

 

For those that don't know, Mike Jas been on the podium many times in non ec champcar.

 

He gets it.  He is a great driver and fun to hang out with in the paddock.  I have driven with and against him many times.

 

In other words, not a rookie, and does race champ in non ec cars.  Don't dismiss him.

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3 hours ago, skierman64 said:

 

EC isn't required to calculate points.  I can opt to not compete for the overall win.  

This is correct

Edited by Team Infiniti

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1 hour ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

IIRC if a car has penalty laps, then on RH/RM, the car will display 0 laps until the deficit is overcome.  With 1000 laps removed, EC cars would just sit at 0 laps forever, making even having them in timing and scoring pointless.

 

Do you want to run off every EC team?  Because that's how you run off every EC team.

I'm not sure that's true, I think they can start negative laps and work them off.  But I'm not sure.  

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2 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

IIRC if a car has penalty laps, then on RH/RM, the car will display 0 laps until the deficit is overcome.  With 1000 laps removed, EC cars would just sit at 0 laps forever, making even having them in timing and scoring pointless.

 

Do you want to run off every EC team?  Because that's how you run off every EC team.

 

No, I don’t. If that’s how RH/RM work then it’s not a viable solution. My understanding was that negative laps could be displayed. 

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5 hours ago, skierman64 said:

 

EC isn't required to calculate points.  I can opt to not compete for the overall win.  

 

Some cars aren't in EC because of points, some are too new for the VPI list or just have too much fuel (no point value for fuel). I don't think the rules are saying take points OR jump to EC. I think EITHER make you EC and not competing.

 

Am I the only one that interprets it that way?

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

I'm not sure that's true, I think they can start negative laps and work them off.  But I'm not sure.  

I've been at races where I was under the impression that certain cars were starting with penalty laps, but I've never seen a car with a - lap count.  That's a question for someone in T&S.

 

Maybe that was just a decision on the part of timing and scoring, maybe not.

 

If it's possible to start EC cars, with a display as a negative, then yes -100, -500, or -1,000 laps, any would be the easiest to implement solution.

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1 hour ago, SonsOfIrony said:

I've been at races where I was under the impression that certain cars were starting with penalty laps, but I've never seen a car with a - lap count.  That's a question for someone in T&S.

 

Maybe that was just a decision on the part of timing and scoring, maybe not.

 

If it's possible to start EC cars, with a display as a negative, then yes -100, -500, or -1,000 laps, any would be the easiest to implement solution.

I have seen - laps displayed for some cars in RM, a few were over 100, but most are -5 to -20 range.

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