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jaystew324

Aero Rules Clarification

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Hi Guys,

 

I have a few questions regarding points for aero devices.  I’m hoping you can help.

 

  1. At WGI in May, I received a few extra material points for my air dam overlapping with my front bumper.  If I cut the lower portion of the bumper off, with the exception of an inch or so to attach the air dam, will I get those points back?
  2. I’m playing with the idea of adding an aero pan, side skirts, and diffuser.
    1. Will this be a total of 30pts, or do the skirts count individually making it 40pts?
    2. Can the aero pan extend to the total width of the car or does it need to stay under the rocker panels?
    3. Can the aero pan be contoured or must it remain flat?
    4. Is there any limitation on the aero pan length forward or backwards to meet the splitter and diffuser?
    5. Is the mounting hardware/brackets included in the 10pts each?
    6. Is there a minimum distance to the ground for side skirts?
  3. I noticed a few teams had cut their fenders to vent the air around the wheels.  Does this count for any points?
  4. I have a few aluminum vents in the hood that count for material points.  If I simply cut vents into the hood without adding any material will it be free?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.  I just want to be sure I’m legal before showing up at the next event.

 

 

Thanks,

Jason

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20 minutes ago, jaystew324 said:

Hi Guys,

 

I have a few questions regarding points for aero devices.  I’m hoping you can help.

 

  1. At WGI in May, I received a few extra material points for my air dam overlapping with my front bumper.  If I cut the lower portion of the bumper off, with the exception of an inch or so to attach the air dam, will I get those points back? This is incorrect and should be adjusted per Mike C at NCM tech line
  2. I’m playing with the idea of adding an aero pan, side skirts, and diffuser.
    1. Will this be a total of 30pts, or do the skirts count individually making it 40pts? Skirts are per set so 10pts total
    2. Can the aero pan extend to the total width of the car or does it need to stay under the rocker panels? Undertray is from axle to axle and cannot extend outside the rockers
    3. Can the aero pan be contoured or must it remain flat? Haven't been given an answer when I asked on this
    4. Is there any limitation on the aero pan length forward or backwards to meet the splitter and diffuser?Again, undertray is axle to axle
    5. Is the mounting hardware/brackets included in the 10pts each? Nothing specific on mounting devices has been given
    6. Is there a minimum distance to the ground for side skirts? Not that I am aware of
  3. I noticed a few teams had cut their fenders to vent the air around the wheels.  Does this count for any points? As long as you don't add material it is free
  4. I have a few aluminum vents in the hood that count for material points.  If I simply cut vents into the hood without adding any material will it be free? Again, if you are only removing material and not adding anything back in it is no points.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.  I just want to be sure I’m legal before showing up at the next event.

 

 

Thanks,

Jason

The above is information I received for the same questions while going through tech at NCM from Jay, Ray, and Mike C.  Some things were discussed among the three of them to give the answer as initially they did not all agree on values.  I would still say they do not all agree on the values so if you get an answer you question, ask for them to discuss it.

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2e - it should all be included in the 10 point cost

2f - I dont think so, thats all on you as to how often you want to be pitting to tear the hanging peices off

3 - Cutting is free, have at it.

4 - Yep, take out the aluminum vents and just cut some in the hood, free.

 

The remainder..... oh gawd, here we go.  Its only Tuesday morning, buckle your seat belts folks....! 🤣

 

Image result for popcorn meme

Edited by thewheelerZ

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These are some very good questions, but some of the answers will need to come from either Tech, BOD, or CEO.

@hotchkis23 did a pretty good job of answering above - but there is still a lot of conjecture because the aero rules are so vague.

The TAC group proposed defining parameters for aero last August when presented with the new BCCR.

In fact @NigelStu spelled out the answers to most all of these questions in his descriptions of each aero device.

Unfortunately, none of the descriptions found their way into the BCCR.

The fact that 2 Tech people and our CEO at times don't agree on values, is an indication to me that the rules need to be spelled out better.

I'm sure the TAC will again want to address this for the 2020 BCCR.

 

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#aeroistoocheap

 

I'm gonna go work on my car with my awesome 6 foot wide wingman wing and airdam...  I might even make my fender flares and undertray a bit more aero friendly.

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1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

#aeroistoocheap

 

I'm gonna go work on my car with my awesome 6 foot wide wingman wing and airdam...  I might even make my fender flares and undertray a bit more aero friendly.

 

Do it!

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2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

#aeroistoocheap

 

I'm gonna go work on my car with my awesome 6 foot wide wingman wing and airdam...  I might even make my fender flares and undertray a bit more aero friendly.

 

Image result for largest wing on a car

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I wish an under tray wasn't interpreted as between the axles only, but oh well- as long as it's applied consistently.

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For the record... only three people's opinions matter on this subject.  Jay, Ray and Mike C.  I'd suggest emailing them rather than posting on the forum for clarification to any rules.

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Thanks for all the feedback guys.  This is very helpful.

 

I sent these same questions to tech@champcar.org about two weeks ago, but haven't heard back yet.  I know they've been busy with NCM and Willow Springs so I thought I'd reach out for the communities feedback.  

 

When I hear back from tech, I'll post up their answers.

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3 hours ago, jaystew324 said:

Thanks for all the feedback guys.  This is very helpful.

 

I sent these same questions to tech@champcar.org about two weeks ago, but haven't heard back yet.  I know they've been busy with NCM and Willow Springs so I thought I'd reach out for the communities feedback.  

 

When I hear back from tech, I'll post up their answers.

Bug them again via emailBug them again via email

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On 6/25/2019 at 8:16 AM, jaystew324 said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
6
On 6/25/2019 at 8:16 AM, jaystew324 said:

Hi Guys,

 

I received answers from Jay today.  See them below.  Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

 

 

 

  1. At WGI in May, I received a few extra material points for my air dam overlapping with my front bumper.  If I cut the lower portion of the bumper off, with the exception of an inch or so to attach the air dam, will I get those points back?

Do to member input we now allow the air dam to go to the top of the bumper.

  1. I’m playing with the idea of adding an aero pan, side skirts, and diffuser.
    1. Will this be a total of 30pts, or do the skirts count individually making it 40pts? Pair if side skirts equal 10 points.
    2. Can the aero pan extend to the total width of the car or does it need to stay under the rocker panels?

      Under the rocker panels/side skirts = 10 points.  Any thing outside will be charged at material cost.

       

    3. Can the aero pan be contoured or must it remain flat? It can be contoured
    4. Is there any limitation on the aero pan length forward or backwards to meet the splitter and diffuser?

      Splitter goes back to the Axle (corrected by Bill Strong per Jay) 

       

      Center tray goes front axle to rear axle -(corrected by Bill Strong per Jay)

    5. Is the mounting hardware/brackets included in the 10pts each?  Yes to a certain extent.  Seen me a photo or sketch to make sure your mounts are compliant and at zero points
    6. Is there a minimum distance to the ground for side skirts? No response on this one
  2. I noticed a few teams had cut their fenders to vent the air around the wheels.  Does this count for any points?Cutting and welding is free so the cut offenders are free.
  3. I have a few aluminum vents in the hood that count for material points.  If I simply cut vents into the hood without adding any material will it be free?  Yes

 

 

 

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Wonder why the "change" from "front axle" to "steering rack".

Wonder if they've considered that some cars have the steering rack pretty far behind the alxe, i.e. firewall mounted in some cases. 

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Opps my mistake I meant axel to axel as I have responded in past emails.  I am working on a BMW today and was stuck in bimmer mode.  

 

Again no change! my mistake!

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Jay,

would you like me to correct the above answers so there is no accidental misconceptions?

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29 minutes ago, jaystew324 said:

Is there a minimum distance to the ground for side skirts? No response on this one

 

image.png.cc79272185a89d94e1aaeeeb9ec07ec0.png

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"Aboviously" too busy to be answering emails based on the number of spelling errors and mistakes in that email.  Sorry guys.

 

 I dont think we have discussed a minimum ride height. 

 

Any past rulings history on that? 

 

If you damage a side skirt and its dragging I am sure the corner station workers will meat ball you into pit lane asap.  Hopefully that one is self regulating but submit unusual efforts for review is my best suggestion.

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On 6/25/2019 at 11:59 AM, red0 said:

 

Image result for largest wing on a car

 

2019 BCCR v1.0.5.
4.3.2.

• Aerodynamic Devices 

o Spoiler / Wing / Splitter / Diffuser / Aero Pan / 

Air Dam / Side Skirts: 10 pts/ea 

• Aerodynamic devices not to exceed width  of bodywork (fenders, bumpers, doors) when viewed from above. Note: Side mirrors are not included in bodywork width. 

• Maximum wing height 12” above roof 

• Maximum wing drop back 12” behind car 

• Maximum splitter reach 12” in front of car 

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On 6/25/2019 at 4:18 PM, riche30 said:

For the record... only three people's opinions matter on this subject.  Jay, Ray and Mike C.  I'd suggest emailing them rather than posting on the forum for clarification to any rules.

Thanks for that statement.  I totally agree.

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Thanks National Tech!  This is really helpful.  :)

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8 minutes ago, morganf said:

What if I want an "aero pan" but no "splitter", can I go to the front bumper with it?

That's what I want- a flat bottom starting at the bumper but no splitter- looks like it's 20 points :(  

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25 minutes ago, morganf said:

What if I want an "aero pan" but no "splitter", can I go to the front bumper with it?

 No . Not for 10 points , axle to axle , rocker pinchweld to rocker pinchweld. 

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