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Bill Strong

2019 Official Road America Winter Classic

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So one thing nice about Road America you got lots of big hills to push it down and then when it doesn't start we can have a weenie roast and toast marsh mellows

when you light it on fire.

 

On a more serious note if you have sprayed with ether and no pop my guess is still a spark related issue. Ether will fire without much compression.

Not  a BMW guy but I have seen lots of failures of crank sensors.

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18 hours ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

Maybe?  My car refuses to start, so may need garage to continue figuring out why it doesn't start.  Great compression, correct timing (cam and ignition), strong spark, correct fuel pressure, and not a single fire from any of the cylinders, even with a giant blast of ether.  Just cranks and cranks and cranks (at 180rpm, never dropping below 11 volts).  

 

I cranked for hours. Replaced a starter only to find I forgot to attach my engine ground. 

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21 hours ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

Maybe?  My car refuses to start, so may need garage to continue figuring out why it doesn't start.  Great compression, correct timing (cam and ignition), strong spark, correct fuel pressure, and not a single fire from any of the cylinders, even with a giant blast of ether.  Just cranks and cranks and cranks (at 180rpm, never dropping below 11 volts).  

@Hi_Im_Will, I know you're very sharp - any luck yet?

If not, here's my 2 cents worth. It sounds like you've covered all the bases with things you've checked. If you have good compression and good spark, good fuel pressure (and even ether wouldn't get it to fire up - I would look toward timing. If compression is good, cam/crank timing would seem to be ok, but it's worth looking at again since I would think it would be easy with a belt driven cam.  I would then double check ignition timing.

As you well know, an engine needs compression, spark and fuel to run. You've indicated you have all 3, but could the spark (ign. timing) be out of phase? 180 off possibly? Depending on what type of ECU you're running, are all the coils firing when they should? Any mixing of drivers/wires, etc?

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Thanks to everybody for the suggestions.  Car is packed and trailer on it's way.  Problem turned out to be the coil.  It was strong enough to drive a spark plug outside the cylinder, and even drive a plug with a 0.120" gap, but too weak to drive a properly gapped plug inside the cylinder and under compression.  Swapped coil with a new one and car started instantly.

 

On the upside, we now know that all 6 injectors flow within 3% of each other, the timing for the cam and crank are perfect, the crank sensor has zero drop outs, and we have a shiny new spare coil driver.

 

Now I can relax at home, watch the live stream, and hope everything holds together and @Jer doesn't hit something doing a misha style record lap attempt.

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4 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

Thanks to everybody for the suggestions.  Car is packed and trailer on it's way.  Problem turned out to be the coil.  It was strong enough to drive a spark plug outside the cylinder, and even drive a plug with a 0.120" gap, but too weak to drive a properly gapped plug inside the cylinder and under compression.  Swapped coil with a new one and car started instantly.

 

On the upside, we now know that all 6 injectors flow within 3% of each other, the timing for the cam and crank are perfect, the crank sensor has zero drop outs, and we have a shiny new spare coil driver.

 

Now I can relax at home, watch the live stream, and hope everything holds together and @Jer doesn't hit something doing a misha style record lap attempt.

You’re not driving this weekend???

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3 minutes ago, enginerd said:

You’re not driving this weekend???

 

Nope.  Got work preventing me from coming Friday or Saturday, and running the Detroit Marathon Sunday morning.  Letting other people have some fun with the car.

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16 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

 

Nope.  Got work preventing me from coming Friday or Saturday, and running the Detroit Marathon Sunday morning.  Letting other people have some fun with the car.

Best wishes for a good marathon race Will! You looked thinner than I remembered when I saw you at Pittsburgh - no wonder if you've been training for a marathon! Is this your first?

Some friends and I did the Free Press Marathon relay style about 15 years ago. I got to run the leg out onto Belle Isle back and forth over the bridge. It was pretty scenic and awesome! (Yeah, I wasn't always so big and out of shape...)

Question regarding getting your injectors flowed so quickly - who did them? Someone local, or did you send them out and get them back that quick? Thanks!

Edited by mcoppola

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51 minutes ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

Now I can relax at home, watch the live stream, and hope everything holds together and @Jer doesn't hit something doing a misha style record lap attempt.

No sir, I've done 4 races at RA and never hit anyone or anything.  My goal is to put in consistent fast laps, no lap records.  Stay off all the curbs which are brutal at RA and have fun.   I drive my car more aggressively than other people's cars, especially as a first timer.  :)  

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8 minutes ago, Jer said:

No sir, I've done 4 races at RA and never hit anyone or anything.  My goal is to put in consistent fast laps, no lap records.  Stay off all the curbs which are brutal at RA and have fun.   I drive my car more aggressively than other people's cars, especially as a first timer.  :)  

I can second this, the rumble strips there are brutal! At the end of a race, we couldn't figure out what the fluid was on the inside of the hood. Turned out to be fluid from the driver side shock.

You could have friendly team challenge. Whoever gets the fastest lap time that day, also has to buy the entire team dinner!

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1 hour ago, mcoppola said:

Best wishes for a good marathon race Will! You looked thinner than I remembered when I saw you at Pittsburgh - no wonder if you've been training for a marathon! Is this your first?

Some friends and I did the Free Press Marathon relay style about 15 years ago. I got to run the leg out onto Belle Isle back and forth over the bridge. It was pretty scenic and awesome! (Yeah, I wasn't always so big and out of shape...)

Question regarding getting your injectors flowed so quickly - who did them? Someone local, or did you send them out and get them back that quick? Thanks!

 

Thanks!  Second time, and very under-prepared.  The Belle isle part is awesome.

 

Did the injectors myself.  With the MS3 you can command a single injector to open, so we just pull the rail and injectors off the intake, point one into a measuring cup, command open for a few minutes, measure level, then on to the next one.

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40 minutes ago, Jer said:

No sir, I've done 4 races at RA and never hit anyone or anything.  My goal is to put in consistent fast laps, no lap records.  Stay off all the curbs which are brutal at RA and have fun.   I drive my car more aggressively than other people's cars, especially as a first timer.  :)  

There was some race at WGI I think where you and Misha started nose to tail.  I remember asking both of you to take it easy and please don't race each other, because it's first stint and I had just rebuilt the car after watching the old one get balled up there.  Had to be no more than 3 laps in and I see a green MR2 side by side when a silver BMW, both cars half sideways, sliding right up to the wall on the exit of the last corner, and one of them completely on the curb.  I almost shat myself.  You could have probably reached out the window of bio and touched Misha's mirror.  Somehow y'all stayed clean, but good God you guys know how to scare the owners. It was like you had planned it out and rehearsed or something.

 

Anyway, after that I've learned to just pretend I'm watching TV and it's somebody else's car.

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

No sir, I've done 4 races at RA and never hit anyone or anything.  My goal is to put in consistent fast laps, no lap records.  Stay off all the curbs which are brutal at RA and have fun.   I drive my car more aggressively than other people's cars, especially as a first timer.  :)  

 

You have to stay off all the curbs except for the exit of T5....that one is pretty relaxing!  Enjoy the e30 at RA! I'll be curious the lap times you can do in that car versus what we did last fall in it.

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3 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

You have to stay off all the curbs except for the exit of T5....that one is pretty relaxing!  Enjoy the e30 at RA! I'll be curious the lap times you can do in that car versus what we did last fall in it.

 

You guys went 2:53.500, Premium Dudes went 2:53.512

I guess GWR does 2:51.8 ?

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19 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

You guys went 2:53.500, Premium Dudes went 2:53.512

I guess GWR does 2:51.8 ?

We shall see.  😈  < that's for Will. 

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1 hour ago, Hi_Im_Will said:

There was some race at WGI I think where you and Misha started nose to tail.  I remember asking both of you to take it easy and please don't race each other, because it's first stint and I had just rebuilt the car after watching the old one get balled up there.  Had to be no more than 3 laps in and I see a green MR2 side by side when a silver BMW, both cars half sideways, sliding right up to the wall on the exit of the last corner, and one of them completely on the curb.  I almost shat myself.  You could have probably reached out the window of bio and touched Misha's mirror.  Somehow y'all stayed clean, but good God you guys know how to scare the owners. It was like you had planned it out and rehearsed or something.

 

Anyway, after that I've learned to just pretend I'm watching TV and it's somebody else's car.

Ahhhh, yes.  Troy radio'd me and told me Misha's coming, let him through.  And I did.  And then it occurred to me he wasn't really any faster than me and the race was on.  Later during the battle, Troy radios me and tells me that Will is asking that I please stop racing him.  I think my response was a two word answer that sounds like duck poo.  It was a super fun battle.  Misha is almost certainly faster than me in talent, but that was a super fun time I'll never forget-we laughed about it together afterwards in the pits.  

 

For posterity: 

 

"And here's the start of an EPIC 16 minute battle between Biohazard ( @Jer driving) and GWR, ending at 1:23:37 with a small off from Bio and then a FCY -> pit stop by GWR.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by enginerd"

Edited by Jer
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Does anyone want to buy (4) 245/15 rival-s tires with 4 laps of practice on them? 
 

let me know if you want me to bring them to the track. 

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18 hours ago, red0 said:

Will the Riley Camaro break the Ludicrous speed track record this weekend? 

I believe it stands at 2:45.586, is this correct @Chris Shay ?

That’s the correct time. I think Riley will beat it by a couple of seconds. It would have been a good race against them if we were there. 

Edited by Chris Shay

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So far they are at a 2:46.914.

 

Is there a live broadcast? Any reporting? From the race monitor results it looks like something might have happened in the opening laps, several cars at the bottom of the list not making laps including Looney Tunes, GWR and Rbank.

Edited by mender

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Lots of good info on the sidebar discussion. Scroll back through it for info on GWR and RBank CRX.

Plus, great commentary as usual!

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