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E30 domination at Indy?


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Hi,

 

I wasn't at the race but it looks like lots of E30s did great at Indy?

 

What is the thing with these cars? Is it that the platform has been around forever so some cars has been perfected?

 

My poor summary of the platform:

- 170hp at ~2400lbs race weight is good but not amazing

- Suspension is old school (semi trailing arms and McPherson)

- Aero looks so so (but what do I know)

- 50pts to play with so probably "stock" engine

- Enough fuel for 2hours

- Old cars so reliability could be an issue

 

There is always some E30s at the front in WRL/Chump, curious to why?

 

 

 

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My opinion, the E30 platform was born out of 15 plus years of top line endurance racing Factory efforts starting with 2000, 2002's, CSL's etc.  Everything about that platform is likely very highly optimized for this exact type of road racing from original design conception.  The exceptions would be due to keeping costs down for consumer sales perhaps, but that is what I would say not having driven one.  Further, high numbers of the platform were built throughout the 80's so they are plentiful and dirt cheap.  The engine's  are bullet proof and they happen to have a reasonably large tank size for the engine capacity etc.  Further, the teams that do well, have spent a bunch of time  tweaking and setting up those cars.  In general, they are on the long end of tricks and tips being well proven and well know to the circle who run them.  Not may secrets probably.  Scratch the old cars so reliability is a problem comment.  With a race car, reliability is based on your preparation and again, these guys know what mods to make and how far to stretch capabilities and still maintain reliability.  It like you are racing against the NY Yankee's in effect....  They can be beat, they may have an off day, but that doesn't happen often and you better be at the top of your game, you will not back into a win in most cases.

Frankly, beyond that, some of those guys are very freakin serious about winning, so the focus level is very high.

Edited by 67Mustang
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2200 to 2400 lbs as raced, but 160 ish hp at the WHEELS. Looking at 180 to 190 crank hp when well tuned and built. 

 

Larger than average fuel capacity per weight allows you to use the power and make 2hrs at most places. 

 

Older engine and chassis combos offer the most potential to gain in tuning and generally have much better fuel to weight. As the parts for these dry up and force people into newer cars people will need to find ways around those two factors.

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I'm not sure about e30 domination at Indy.

 

I believe just as many 3000gt as e30 were in impound both days.

 

In other words, I think there were a total of 2 e30s in impound, and I think 2 3000gts (or maybe just one, but twice).

 

I'll have to go back and look at the results.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I'm not sure about e30 domination at Indy.

 

I believe just as many 3000gt as e30 were in impound both days.

 

In other words, I think there were a total of 2 e30s in impound, and I think 2 3000gts (or maybe just one, but twice).

 

I'll have to go back and look at the results.

 

 

1 3000GT in both days, 2nd 3000GT in impound only on Sunday.

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1 hour ago, Black Magic said:

2200 to 2400 lbs as raced, but 160 ish hp at the WHEELS. Looking at 180 to 190 crank hp when well tuned and built. 

 

Larger than average fuel capacity per weight allows you to use the power and make 2hrs at most places. 

 

Older engine and chassis combos offer the most potential to gain in tuning and generally have much better fuel to weight. As the parts for these dry up and force people into newer cars people will need to find ways around those two factors.

I have data that shows 2000-2200 is where its at for a lot of the competitive teams, per 2 Road America weigh ins.  Also, just last year at NCM we saw the RVA car hit 170 whp at only 6k rpm and the dyno was magically shut down, while GWR made 159hp at 7k, nothing to see there.....

 

But to the point, while e30's were quick, a lot of the teams were running relatively close in times overall.  Some just seem to fall victim to tires or brakes going away quicker, also driver fatigue.  Saturday up until the last few hours it was still a pretty wide open race with a lot of different makes in contention. 

Edited by hotchkis23
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1 minute ago, ross2004 said:

Y'all are way off on E30 weights...

 

Make: BMW
Model: E30
Year: 1990
VPi: 450
Car Weight: 2731
Original HP: 170
New HP: 3
Points Added to VPi: 50
--->NEW VPI: 500

 

Pew, I was a bit nervous! 170hp crank translates to 150 whp and a weight of 2731. So a PWR of about 18. That is much better than the 170whp and 2100 lbs resulting in a PWR of 12.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, ross2004 said:

Y'all are way off on E30 weights...

 

Make: BMW
Model: E30
Year: 1990
VPi: 450
Car Weight: 2731
Original HP: 170
New HP: 3
Points Added to VPi: 50
--->NEW VPI: 500

Put 'em on the scales.  There you will find them well under 2300 in race trim. 

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there are E36s around 2500lbs getting pulled on by some of these E30s.. ask me how I know.     I do wonder if there is some cam action or other nonsense making some of them better power to weight than E36...   who knows, everyone faster than me is cheating obviously :)

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22 minutes ago, theblue said:

there are E36s around 2500lbs getting pulled on by some of these E30s.. ask me how I know.     I do wonder if there is some cam action or other nonsense making some of them better power to weight than E36...   who knows, everyone faster than me is cheating obviously :)

 

Was it you guys or another e36 that sounded like it was a cylinder down at Indy?  Very odd exhaust tone.  

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

Pew, I was a bit nervous! 170hp crank translates to 150 whp and a weight of 2731. So a PWR of about 18. That is much better than the 170whp and 2100 lbs resulting in a PWR of 12.

 

 

 

I am not sure you could make an e30 weigh 2700 lbs in a champ legal trim (some interior has to be removed). 

 

The good cars to have are in the 12s or better when comparing crank hp (correcting wheel numbers to actual weight).

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I think what these individuals are implying is your use of all the “aero”  you utilized at Indy. Big wing, dive plains, defusers and ground affects skirts gives that Deutschland Rocket an unfair advantage. 

 

Never mind you have been developing your car for 4 years and have 4 outstanding drivers. The fuel cell you use to take advantage of 2 extra gallons  has drastically hurt your  balance and handling by moving the tank to the boot. Who does such a thing to an E30? Cheater!!! 🤨😎😉

 

Hell of a drive this weekend. Congratulations and well deserved. The target is now on your back.

 

3 hours ago, enginerd said:

Image result for move along officer barbrady

 

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I assume this was mostly green font.  The winning e30 had no aero.

 

Edit: the winning car had no obvious front, rear, or sideskirt type aero.

 

I understand attention was paid to airflow and drag and weight reduction. 

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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12 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I assume this was mostly green font.  The winning e30 had no aero.

Well I wouldn’t say no aero.   Nate has paid lots of attention aero.  Just no wing.  There’s a diffuser. The way it’s done I’m not sure there at points beyond material.  There are a few other bits that are helping with drag.  

He’s also done a masterful job understanding that the amount of weight the hp has to move matters.     And then there’s the driving part.  They did good at that too.   

 

 

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54 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Well I wouldn’t say no aero.   Nate has paid lots of attention aero.  Just no wing.  There’s a diffuser. The way it’s done I’m not sure there at points beyond material.  There are a few other bits that are helping with drag.  

He’s also done a masterful job understanding that the amount of weight the hp has to move matters.     And then there’s the driving part.  They did good at that too.   

 

 

Oh yea.  I didn't mean to imply there wasn't any thought or effort put into it.

 

Just that it d oesnt have all the doodads like gwr and some other teams have.

 

I actually figured it was a swapped car because I d idnt see any obvious front or rear aero.

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14 hours ago, Jab31169 said:

 

Was it you guys or another e36 that sounded like it was a cylinder down at Indy?  Very odd exhaust tone.  

 

that was us on Saturday.  I don't know what fixed it, but we replaced the crank sensor and all the plugs and coil packs in a pit stop and it resolved the problem.  The car was missing just a little bit.   New motor and we were worried it was bad, but fortunate to fix it.  

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