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$2,300 stoptech front calipers/rotors - free or points


Racer7x
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There is about difference between a big brake kit and piecing together some rotors and calipers with a handmade adapter....

 

If you are sure this kit was used, I'm saying it should be points.

 

Isn't it in the rulebook?  Pretty sure it is...

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

I'm sure @National Tech will tech the brakes on whatever car you are referring to using all the applicable written rules:

4.7.7. Wheels, brake calipers, brake rotors / drums and nonadjustable shock absorbers are open, PROVIDED they meet the “2X Rule.”

4.8.3. Teams must have receipts and bring them to tech to document their parts cost less than 2X the stock replacement parts.

 

etc.

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Someone really loves my Brakes they decided to make Two threads 😂 

 

Check out the 2x Pricing, I dont make the rules....

 

Its nice to know everyones scared of a car that hasn't ran a single Champ lap, means that it should do pretty well if people are so scared of it :)  

 

Link to the one you made in April - 

 

 

 

 

Edited by the5
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Remember, it's retail pricing used for the 2x rule. Not some special sponsorship or hookup deal.     Anyone has to be able to replicated it.     I've had this discussion with Mike personally.   If you have retail pricing receipts from a nationally recognized business or dealership that anyone can go to and make the same purchase you did you are good. 

 

4.8.1. The retail price of any NEW replacement wheel, brake caliper, brake rotor (1 or 2 piece), or shock absorber that you put on your ChampCar must be less than twice the cost of a stock replacement wheel, brake caliper, brake rotors, or shock absorber that is available on-line by a nationally recognized auto parts retail chain (i.e. - Napa, AutoZone, O’Reilly, Advanced, etc.). ChampCar reserves the right to go on-line and pull up retail prices.

Edited by Snake
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34 minutes ago, the5 said:

Someone really loves my Brakes they decided to make Two threads 😂 

 

Check out the 2x Pricing, I dont make the rules....

 

Its nice to know everyones scared of a car that hasn't ran a single Champ lap, means that it should do pretty well if people are so scared of it :)  

 

Link to the one you made in April - 

 

 

 

 

Might not really be about your car, but what the ruling could open up for others to to do.    Ya never know.  

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1 minute ago, JDChristianson said:

Might not really be about your car, but what the ruling could open up for others to to do.    Ya never know.  

The 2X rule is quoted above, it hasnt changed. The "issue" with the 2x rule is that it applies to different cars in a different way as some brands parts cost more than others. 

Same with Fuel tank size, Its something that comes with your car and you cant change, 2x is the same way. 

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55 minutes ago, scottyk said:

I was told at Road America If outside the 2x’s rule they are 5 pts per corner. That’s what the MR2 crowd claims anyways 

This was true for wilwoods because they were a sponsor. 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

https://www.hondapartsonline.net/v-2002-honda-s2000-coupe--s2000--6-speed-manual/chassis--front-brake

 

image.png.d762695181986b94a7a06465c9f21089.png

 

2x calipers = 1949.76

 

 

image.thumb.png.38fe3d7fa3859002792c85e5caae5c35.png

 

 

2x rotors = $493.52

 

 

Total allowed for front "BBK" kit = $2443.28

Cost Above from Stoptech = $2335.50

 

Surplus budget = $107.78

 

 

 

This is zero about the Rockwell's and their budget, and 100% about the decision last year to allow "dealer" prices to calculate the 2x cost.  They are just the first to exploit the loophole that was opened up.   Dont hate the player, hate the game.  If I recall, some donkey-hole wrote a petition relating to the 2x cost rules...

 

 

The rule, as it is written currently, is ambiguous.  I don't think new vs reman matters, and I do not believe there is any clause that says the Rotors have to be 2x on ONLY rotor costs, and the Calipers have to be 2x on ONLY caliper costs.  

 

Edited by Huggy
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4 minutes ago, Huggy said:

 

 

This is zero about the Rockwell's and their budget, and 100% about the decision last year to allow "dealer" prices to calculate the 2x cost.  They are just the first to exploit the loophole that was opened up.   Dont hate the player, hate the game.  If I recall, some donkey-hole wrote a petition relating to the 2x cost rules...

 

 

 

Also in perspective a time $4k cost on brakes will actually save us money in the long run, and if we decide to sell the car the Brakes can be taken off and sold getting I would say 60% of initial investment back.  

Edited by the5
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4 minutes ago, Huggy said:

https://www.hondapartsonline.net/v-2002-honda-s2000-coupe--s2000--6-speed-manual/chassis--front-brake

 

image.png.d762695181986b94a7a06465c9f21089.png

 

2x calipers = 1949.76

 

 

image.thumb.png.38fe3d7fa3859002792c85e5caae5c35.png

 

 

2x rotors = $493.52

 

 

Total allowed for front "BBK" kit = $2443.28

Cost Above from Stoptech = $2335.50

 

Surplus budget = $107.78

 

 

 

This is zero about the Rockwell's and their budget, and 100% about the decision last year to allow "dealer" prices to calculate the 2x cost.  They are just the first to exploit the loophole that was opened up.   Dont hate the player, hate the game.  If I recall, some donkey-hole wrote a petition relating to the 2x cost rules...

 

 

The rule, as it is written currently, is ambiguous.  I don't think new vs reman matters, and I do not believe there is any clause that says the Rotors have to be 2x on ONLY rotor costs, and the Calipers have to be 2x on ONLY caliper costs.  

 

Yep.  You are correct.  The rule is not specific enough and the implementation isn’t what many think it is.  

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16 minutes ago, the5 said:

The 2X rule is quoted above, it hasnt changed. The "issue" with the 2x rule is that it applies to different cars in a different way as some brands parts cost more than others. 

Same with Fuel tank size, Its something that comes with your car and you cant change, 2x is the same way. 

I’m aware of how it works.  And you are correct.  A car with pricey stock parts gets to spend more for aftermarket.    Possibly a flaw in the system.   But until it changes I think everyone should tap their 401k for the race car.  

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Just in case anyone was wondering, 

 

E30 Front Calipers + Guides are over $400.  The calipers are 270, the guides are NLA so you have to find somewhere listing a price, last price I found was 89 Euros.

Rotors are NLA also, but I can find them listed for over $110 each.  That would put the 2x cost for a E30!! at over 2k

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30 minutes ago, Huggy said:

Just in case anyone was wondering, 

 

E30 Front Calipers + Guides are over $400.  The calipers are 270, the guides are NLA so you have to find somewhere listing a price, last price I found was 89 Euros.

Rotors are NLA also, but I can find them listed for over $110 each.  That would put the 2x cost for a E30!! at over 2k

If only we could roll that in to ABS components

 

tenor.gif?itemid=3491829

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The 2x rule always applied to the highest retail price you could find including dealer pricing.

Teams aren't obligated to find the cheapest, junk remanufactured caliper and use that value for their 2x valuation. 

This, like many other issues, doesn't seem to be a problem until somebody realizes they either weren't smart enough to do it or they can't do it with their own car. And full disclosure, we researched and documented pricing on every single 2x part on our car and documented it thoroughly in our build book. 

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1 minute ago, Snorman said:

The 2x rule always applied to the highest retail price you could find including dealer pricing.

Teams aren't obligated to find the cheapest, junk remanufactured caliper and use that value for their 2x valuation. 

This, like many other issues, doesn't seem to be a problem until somebody realizes they either weren't smart enough to do it or they can't do it with their own car. And full disclosure, we researched and documented pricing on every single 2x part on our car and documented it thoroughly in our build book. 

 

No, it used to be a "National retail auto parts chain" 

Examples given were NAPA or Oreilly's, but that would also include Autozone (a sponsor), Advance, carquest, pep-boys, etc.

 

The dealership thing was not a thing until the past 2 years or so (I think your team was the one who got that OK'ed?)

 

The dealership, IMO, isn't a national retail chain, and allowing that price was just a step towards the cost-creep we have been doing recently.

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9 hours ago, the5 said:

Also in perspective a time $4k cost on brakes will actually save us money in the long run, and if we decide to sell the car the Brakes can be taken off and sold getting I would say 60% of initial investment back.  

Personal savings are completely irrelevant to fellow racers, the rules are supposed to stimy big ticket items witch, in the long run, affect optics of those attempting to bring a grassroots car to a grassroots series.

 

As Huggy points out, hating the game, is what I am doing, wincing behind my keyboard, at this evolution/unintended side effects of the petition process.

 

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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