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Convert from dbw to cable (throttle body)


wvumtnbkr
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I wanna swap an engine into my car.  The engine i am thinking about is dbw.

 

Can I convert to cable throttle by adapting a different throttle body of the same size without a point hit?

 

Thanks!

 

Rob R.

 

 

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4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I wanna swap an engine into my car.  The engine i am thinking about is dbw.

 

Can I convert to cable throttle by adapting a different throttle body of the same size without a point hit?

 

Thanks!

 

Rob R.

 

 

Minivan motor in an E46?

  • Haha 1
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4 hours ago, Huggy said:

image.png.a6a4ecc2b7e3793d97d8d73871b4c506.png

Unfortunately, that is not the case.  All 3500 are dbw.

10 minutes ago, dogtired said:

Minivan motor in an E46?

In an rx7.

 

Read the other thread....  556....

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

 

1 hour ago, morganf said:

Remember to read all the various rule books/forum search/Facebook search.

Hate to derail Rob's thread, but...

Rather than get upset or frustrated about it, I put a "haha" on the post above, cuz sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh or smile when things aren't perfect...

Part of the TAC's mission was to provide clarity and answers to our members.

I feel we've made some progress toward that goal, but ideally, all this info would be in the BCCR alone, or in a Tech update/explanation document/section like SCCA publishes.

The BCCR section of the forum was available to use for this, and we did begin using it, but the BOD and TAC still aren't sure if that's the best way to go about it. 

 

Appreciate everyone's patience as we all continue to try to improve things. We've (TAC) gotten a sneak peek at the 2020 BCCR, and for those of you who favor rule stability, I'd say you'll like what's going to be rolled out. 

BTW, since I'm not on FB, what am I missing from there? 😉

edit: P.S. I think it's great that @Jay Mauney @National Tech and @Ray Franck took the time to put that explanation document out there for everyone.

Edited by mcoppola
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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Why not just use the DBW throttle body?  Its a nice improvement for me - no more risk of breaking a throttle cable, easier to tune, can mitigate my lack of foot control by changing the ramp rates.   Only downside I have found is I cant blip the throttle from under the hood, I gotta stick a foot in the car to do it, or plug in the laptop.

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43 minutes ago, Huggy said:

Why not just use the DBW throttle body?  Its a nice improvement for me - no more risk of breaking a throttle cable, easier to tune, can mitigate my lack of foot control by changing the ramp rates.   Only downside I have found is I cant blip the throttle from under the hood, I gotta stick a foot in the car to do it, or plug in the laptop.

I would.  Except the ecu can't be tuned and they are all automatics.  So the ecu can't be transferred to the new car.

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10 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Thanks @mcoppola.  I don't mind the interruption. 

 

So, now that those dudes have notifications that they have been tagged, maybe I can get an easy answer!  Haha!

 

Rob i asked the same question about a year ago working with the SLK. German locked down ecu was going nuts at a racing drive cycle and activating limp home mode. DBW can be nice like huggy said, but not having 2k to 3k tied up in a ecu with DBW capability is also nice. Doing it with proper plausibility calcs is a must, and that takes a good ecu. 

 

I got a "yes" to....

1) cable throttle body from same engine family

2) cutting open motor on throttle body and welding\bolting on a cable arm

3) using the shaft\blade from a similar sized cable throttle body and installing it in the DBW housing to make it manual (easier way to do option 2).

 

I got a "eh...sort of ok" response to swapping and entire throttle body of the same or smaller diameter from a different engine spec\different engine. 

 

That should give you reasonable options. A decent local machine shop should be able to swap the manual guts into an DBW housing.

 

In the end i talked the SLK team into the $$ ecu and using all stock parts. They had the money, and this was the cleaner solution.

 

Edited by Black Magic
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1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

Our GM ECU's can be tuned, and we are using the DBW in the ecotech swap.   The "stuff" is all out of Cobalts and Malibus .   Are you sure the minivan ecu can't be tuned?  

 

Yep.  It's the po5 ecu.  It is specific to 2005 through 2006 lx9 3500 engines.  

 

They only came in g6 (non gt), malibu, the crossover things from Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy.  No sporting vehicles among the bunch.

 

There is no market, because you can use the 3400 ecu (that can be tuned), and use another engines throttle body.

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15 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Yep.  It's the po5 ecu.  It is specific to 2005 through 2006 lx9 3500 engines.  

 

They only came in g6 (non gt), malibu, the crossover things from Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy.  No sporting vehicles among the bunch.

 

There is no market, because you can use the 3400 ecu (that can be tuned), and use another engines throttle body.

Well isn’t that just dumb.   

 

So just for confusiin sake  have you looked at doing a Solstice ECo Tech.  180 hp maybe less weight?     Dirt cheap v6 is prolly still the answer 

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18 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I have.  I haven't heard anybody do the swap and not blow up an engine within the first couple of races...

 

The v6 never so much as hiccupped....

^^^ can confirm, race day 1. we'll be back at gingerman in a couple weeks for redemption!!

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55 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I have.  I haven't heard anybody do the swap and not blow up an engine within the first couple of races...

 

The v6 never so much as hiccupped....

 

So, we have miata's running eco-techs converted out of FWD cars with success not blowing up.  Yet we cant take a RWD configured Eco-Tech from a solstice and put it into a RWD car and have it not blow up?

 

Am i understanding this correctly?

 

Also when we did our EFI conversion on the cosworth we were originally going to use a 2mm smaller throttle body out of a jeep because it bolted up and was easy just so we had a TPS and were told it was points for aftermarket throttle body from another engine. We ended up machining an adapter and making the OEM throttle body work.

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1 hour ago, NigelStu said:

just take the throttle plate out and run WOT.  ALL.  THE. TIME.

 

You just described how modern cars run, keep the throttle as wide open as possible all the time and regulate torque output with the electronic wastegate actuator.

 

I asked about that for a potential turbo build, the turbo swap rules are kind of vague about the parts allowed to make it work. If it were interpreted to be that everything from the turbo to the cylinder head was included in the piping you could build a manifold and use a different throttle body. Bosch is selling standalone DBW throttle bodies or I could snag one from Emissions division. The interpretation that I got was that turbos got free headers, but the throttle bodies and intake were points, superchargers got free intakes and maybe throttle bodies if they were part of the SC, but headers were points.

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4 hours ago, Gkuhn41 said:

 

So, we have miata's running eco-techs converted out of FWD cars with success not blowing up.  Yet we cant take a RWD configured Eco-Tech from a solstice and put it into a RWD car and have it not blow up?

 

Am i understanding this correctly?

 

Also when we did our EFI conversion on the cosworth we were originally going to use a 2mm smaller throttle body out of a jeep because it bolted up and was easy just so we had a TPS and were told it was points for aftermarket throttle body from another engine. We ended up machining an adapter and making the OEM throttle body work.

I think not.  Those miata with the ecotec have blown up.  I know of at least 3 or 4 swaps that dun blowd up. 

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  • 9 months later...
On 8/1/2019 at 1:31 PM, NigelStu said:

just take the throttle plate out and run WOT.  ALL.  THE. TIME.

WOM

 

Sorry for the thread revival, but I couldn't resist...

 

Now searching for current rule... Nothing specific found. I assume the above still stands?

 

But what about converting DBC to DBW?

Edited by Wheelman_99
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58 minutes ago, Wheelman_99 said:

WOM

 

Sorry for the thread revival, but I couldn't resist...

 

Now searching for current rule... Nothing specific found. I assume the above still stands?

 

But what about converting DBC to DBW?

 

If you are swapping in an engine that came with DBW, I don't think you will even raise an eyebrow if you run the throttle body that came with the engine you are claiming in your swap.

 

Are you converting an existing DBC engine to DBW? Or just a DBC car to DBW engine?

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