wvumtnbkr Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 I wanna swap an engine into my car. The engine i am thinking about is dbw. Can I convert to cable throttle by adapting a different throttle body of the same size without a point hit? Thanks! Rob R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted July 31, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganf Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 Remember to read all the various rule books/forum search/Facebook search. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted July 31, 2019 Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: I wanna swap an engine into my car. The engine i am thinking about is dbw. Can I convert to cable throttle by adapting a different throttle body of the same size without a point hit? Thanks! Rob R. Minivan motor in an E46? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted July 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Huggy said: Unfortunately, that is not the case. All 3500 are dbw. 10 minutes ago, dogtired said: Minivan motor in an E46? In an rx7. Read the other thread.... 556.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted August 1, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, morganf said: Remember to read all the various rule books/forum search/Facebook search. Hate to derail Rob's thread, but... Rather than get upset or frustrated about it, I put a "haha" on the post above, cuz sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh or smile when things aren't perfect... Part of the TAC's mission was to provide clarity and answers to our members. I feel we've made some progress toward that goal, but ideally, all this info would be in the BCCR alone, or in a Tech update/explanation document/section like SCCA publishes. The BCCR section of the forum was available to use for this, and we did begin using it, but the BOD and TAC still aren't sure if that's the best way to go about it. Appreciate everyone's patience as we all continue to try to improve things. We've (TAC) gotten a sneak peek at the 2020 BCCR, and for those of you who favor rule stability, I'd say you'll like what's going to be rolled out. BTW, since I'm not on FB, what am I missing from there? edit: P.S. I think it's great that @Jay Mauney @National Tech and @Ray Franck took the time to put that explanation document out there for everyone. Edited August 1, 2019 by mcoppola 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Thanks @mcoppola. I don't mind the interruption. So, now that those dudes have notifications that they have been tagged, maybe I can get an easy answer! Haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 The Dark Side: "so close" ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, dogtired said: The Dark Side: "so close" ... I still race Tyler's car and now Ben's car, so.. . I can feel the pull of the dark side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted August 1, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Why not just use the DBW throttle body? Its a nice improvement for me - no more risk of breaking a throttle cable, easier to tune, can mitigate my lack of foot control by changing the ramp rates. Only downside I have found is I cant blip the throttle from under the hood, I gotta stick a foot in the car to do it, or plug in the laptop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 43 minutes ago, Huggy said: Why not just use the DBW throttle body? Its a nice improvement for me - no more risk of breaking a throttle cable, easier to tune, can mitigate my lack of foot control by changing the ramp rates. Only downside I have found is I cant blip the throttle from under the hood, I gotta stick a foot in the car to do it, or plug in the laptop. I would. Except the ecu can't be tuned and they are all automatics. So the ecu can't be transferred to the new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: Thanks @mcoppola. I don't mind the interruption. So, now that those dudes have notifications that they have been tagged, maybe I can get an easy answer! Haha! Rob i asked the same question about a year ago working with the SLK. German locked down ecu was going nuts at a racing drive cycle and activating limp home mode. DBW can be nice like huggy said, but not having 2k to 3k tied up in a ecu with DBW capability is also nice. Doing it with proper plausibility calcs is a must, and that takes a good ecu. I got a "yes" to.... 1) cable throttle body from same engine family 2) cutting open motor on throttle body and welding\bolting on a cable arm 3) using the shaft\blade from a similar sized cable throttle body and installing it in the DBW housing to make it manual (easier way to do option 2). I got a "eh...sort of ok" response to swapping and entire throttle body of the same or smaller diameter from a different engine spec\different engine. That should give you reasonable options. A decent local machine shop should be able to swap the manual guts into an DBW housing. In the end i talked the SLK team into the $$ ecu and using all stock parts. They had the money, and this was the cleaner solution. Edited August 1, 2019 by Black Magic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 Our GM ECU's can be tuned, and we are using the DBW in the ecotech swap. The "stuff" is all out of Cobalts and Malibus . Are you sure the minivan ecu can't be tuned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, JDChristianson said: Our GM ECU's can be tuned, and we are using the DBW in the ecotech swap. The "stuff" is all out of Cobalts and Malibus . Are you sure the minivan ecu can't be tuned? Yep. It's the po5 ecu. It is specific to 2005 through 2006 lx9 3500 engines. They only came in g6 (non gt), malibu, the crossover things from Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy. No sporting vehicles among the bunch. There is no market, because you can use the 3400 ecu (that can be tuned), and use another engines throttle body. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDChristianson Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: Yep. It's the po5 ecu. It is specific to 2005 through 2006 lx9 3500 engines. They only came in g6 (non gt), malibu, the crossover things from Buick, Pontiac, and Chevy. No sporting vehicles among the bunch. There is no market, because you can use the 3400 ecu (that can be tuned), and use another engines throttle body. Well isn’t that just dumb. So just for confusiin sake have you looked at doing a Solstice ECo Tech. 180 hp maybe less weight? Dirt cheap v6 is prolly still the answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 I have. I haven't heard anybody do the swap and not blow up an engine within the first couple of races... The v6 never so much as hiccupped.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmi11er Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 18 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: I have. I haven't heard anybody do the swap and not blow up an engine within the first couple of races... The v6 never so much as hiccupped.... ^^^ can confirm, race day 1. we'll be back at gingerman in a couple weeks for redemption!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee NigelStu Posted August 1, 2019 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 just take the throttle plate out and run WOT. ALL. THE. TIME. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gkuhn41 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 55 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: I have. I haven't heard anybody do the swap and not blow up an engine within the first couple of races... The v6 never so much as hiccupped.... So, we have miata's running eco-techs converted out of FWD cars with success not blowing up. Yet we cant take a RWD configured Eco-Tech from a solstice and put it into a RWD car and have it not blow up? Am i understanding this correctly? Also when we did our EFI conversion on the cosworth we were originally going to use a 2mm smaller throttle body out of a jeep because it bolted up and was easy just so we had a TPS and were told it was points for aftermarket throttle body from another engine. We ended up machining an adapter and making the OEM throttle body work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted August 1, 2019 Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, NigelStu said: just take the throttle plate out and run WOT. ALL. THE. TIME. You just described how modern cars run, keep the throttle as wide open as possible all the time and regulate torque output with the electronic wastegate actuator. I asked about that for a potential turbo build, the turbo swap rules are kind of vague about the parts allowed to make it work. If it were interpreted to be that everything from the turbo to the cylinder head was included in the piping you could build a manifold and use a different throttle body. Bosch is selling standalone DBW throttle bodies or I could snag one from Emissions division. The interpretation that I got was that turbos got free headers, but the throttle bodies and intake were points, superchargers got free intakes and maybe throttle bodies if they were part of the SC, but headers were points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted August 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Gkuhn41 said: So, we have miata's running eco-techs converted out of FWD cars with success not blowing up. Yet we cant take a RWD configured Eco-Tech from a solstice and put it into a RWD car and have it not blow up? Am i understanding this correctly? Also when we did our EFI conversion on the cosworth we were originally going to use a 2mm smaller throttle body out of a jeep because it bolted up and was easy just so we had a TPS and were told it was points for aftermarket throttle body from another engine. We ended up machining an adapter and making the OEM throttle body work. I think not. Those miata with the ecotec have blown up. I know of at least 3 or 4 swaps that dun blowd up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman_99 - C Rallo Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) On 8/1/2019 at 1:31 PM, NigelStu said: just take the throttle plate out and run WOT. ALL. THE. TIME. WOM Sorry for the thread revival, but I couldn't resist... Now searching for current rule... Nothing specific found. I assume the above still stands? But what about converting DBC to DBW? Edited May 25, 2020 by Wheelman_99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 58 minutes ago, Wheelman_99 said: WOM Sorry for the thread revival, but I couldn't resist... Now searching for current rule... Nothing specific found. I assume the above still stands? But what about converting DBC to DBW? If you are swapping in an engine that came with DBW, I don't think you will even raise an eyebrow if you run the throttle body that came with the engine you are claiming in your swap. Are you converting an existing DBC engine to DBW? Or just a DBC car to DBW engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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