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Spec Miata Penske Shocks 2X Value


takjak2
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After impound at NCM, we were informed that tech deems the hats included in the 2x cost and doesn't care that you have to run later model units to make them work, I personally called out a team running a non matching top hat and was told this....also, to their credit, that was not necessarily something the agreed with, but were told how it was going to be...

13 minutes ago, Huggy said:

How do they work with stock springs and spring perches?

you run a coil over with a clamp on perch, no real option there.

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13 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

After impound at NCM, we were informed that tech deems the hats included in the 2x cost and doesn't care that you have to run later model units to make them work, I personally called out a team running a non matching top hat and was told this....also, to their credit, that was not necessarily something the agreed with, but were told how it was going to be...

you run a coil over with a clamp on perch, no real option there.

Sweet, so M3 strut mounts should be free for E36's then.

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3 minutes ago, ABR-Glen said:

Sweet, so M3 strut mounts should be free for E36's then.

One would have to assume as much.  I do not agree with this interpretation due to the can of worms it opens up, but I also am just a lonely member of the series so my feeling don't matter.....

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
9 hours ago, enginerd said:

I wonder if I can fit those shocks on an e30......

You can't. they are too short in the front.  The miata fronts will FIT in the rear, but the valving is wrong and it isnt revalveable - by design.

 

 

9 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

 

you run a coil over with a clamp on perch, no real option there.

 

How does that work?  When you pay the 10 points per corner for coil overs, is that just for the perch and adjuster or does that include shocks/springs at the same time?

 

Edited by Huggy
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I am almost certain (like 99%) that to run the Penske shock you have to take 10 points per corner for the coilover.  All the Hardware to make them work is no points from what I understand.     They are a threaded body adjustable perch shock.   the "shock" is allowed under the 2x rule but its a coilover that incurs the points.    Its only item # 756000 on the list of things that have been allowed.   I mean why wouldn't a shock developed by Penske on their shaker table for racing Miatas be allowed.     

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54 minutes ago, Huggy said:

How does that work?  When you pay the 10 points per corner for coil overs, is that just for the perch and adjuster or does that include shocks/springs at the same time?

 

Coilover includes the mounting perch/adjuster and the spring.  Shock is separate and if over 2x incurs additional points.  The penskes require you to use a non-stock perch therefore you do take the 10pts. per corner for coilovers if you decide to go that route.  Still feel they should be additional pts. but that opinion is not popular with those that make the rules, kinda like uber $$ brake kits, so I doubt that ever changes.

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45 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

I am almost certain (like 99%) that to run the Penske shock you have to take 10 points per corner for the coilover.  All the Hardware to make them work is no points from what I understand.     They are a threaded body adjustable perch shock.   the "shock" is allowed under the 2x rule but its a coilover that incurs the points.    Its only item # 756000 on the list of things that have been allowed.   I mean why wouldn't a shock developed by Penske on their shaker table for racing Miatas be allowed.     

 

 

The shock itself is not threaded.  It comes with a threaded sleeve that sits on the shock body with a snap ring and o-ring to hold it up.  It uses the same threaded sleeve/collar that the old bilsteins used.

 

(just installed a set on a miata last week, and test-fit to an e30 in the process)

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1 minute ago, Huggy said:

 

 

The shock itself is not threaded.  It comes with a threaded sleeve that sits on the shock body with a snap ring and o-ring to hold it up.  It uses the same threaded sleeve/collar that the old bilsteins used.

 

(just installed a set on a miata last week, and test-fit to an e30 in the process)

Thanks.   Have obviously  not had my hands on them.    

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3 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

Coilover includes the mounting perch/adjuster and the spring.  Shock is separate and if over 2x incurs additional points.  The penskes require you to use a non-stock perch therefore you do take the 10pts. per corner for coilovers if you decide to go that route.  Still feel they should be additional pts. but that opinion is not popular with those that make the rules, kinda like uber $$ brake kits, so I doubt that ever changes.

This is the same as the Bilsteins.  And they arent "aftermarket"  they are just the NB top hats vs the NA top hats.  NB hats are Nothing special, not adjustable, no camber advantage or anything different with mounting points vs the NA hat.  The NA top hats would need to be ghetto modified to work with a 2.5" spring like the NB top hat so its honestly zero gain and the billies w/ coilovers have been accepted this way for years now.

 

image.png.eb8ec7791f000ec5fdf9e513350681e1.png

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12 minutes ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

This is the same as the Bilsteins.  And they arent "aftermarket"  they are just the NB top hats vs the NA top hats.  NB hats are Nothing special, not adjustable, no camber advantage or anything different with mounting points vs the NA hat.  The NA top hats would need to be ghetto modified to work with a 2.5" spring like the NB top hat so its honestly zero gain and the billies w/ coilovers have been accepted this way for years now.

 

image.png.eb8ec7791f000ec5fdf9e513350681e1.png

@55mini  Hey we have some sweet ghetto mods on our top hats. 😀.     

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

This is the same as the Bilsteins.  And they arent "aftermarket"  they are just the NB top hats vs the NA top hats.  NB hats are Nothing special, not adjustable, no camber advantage or anything different with mounting points vs the NA hat.  The NA top hats would need to be ghetto modified to work with a 2.5" spring like the NB top hat so its honestly zero gain and the billies w/ coilovers have been accepted this way for years now.

 

image.png.eb8ec7791f000ec5fdf9e513350681e1.png

I'm aware, also, these weren't the NB hats that a team was running, they were an aftermarket piece I had never seen.  Yes, we have had the pleasure of modifying the stock hats, not fun, but it is doable.  The rubber is the biggest pain of it all.

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15 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

I'm aware, also, these weren't the NB hats that a team was running, they were an aftermarket piece I had never seen.  Yes, we have had the pleasure of modifying the stock hats, not fun, but it is doable.  The rubber is the biggest pain of it all.

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHH, now thats a different story.  I have had a long email chain with tech and Chisek about this issue with still no official resolution to communicated to me.

 

I would not be very happy if truly aftermarket top hats were allowed at no additional points.  I do believe that the NB hats should be allowed however, as part of the "coilover kit" already being assessed the 10pts/corner.

 

And agreed, the rubber part is the worst part.  We let them sit in kerosene for a few weeks and that made life easier.

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5 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

Coilover includes the mounting perch/adjuster and the spring.  Shock is separate and if over 2x incurs additional points.  The penskes require you to use a non-stock perch therefore you do take the 10pts. per corner for coilovers if you decide to go that route.  

Unless you re-purpose your stock perches, eh? :ph34r:

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7 hours ago, Alchemy Autosport said:

This is the same as the Bilsteins.  And they arent "aftermarket"  they are just the NB top hats vs the NA top hats.  NB hats are Nothing special, not adjustable, no camber advantage or anything different with mounting points vs the NA hat.  The NA top hats would need to be ghetto modified to work with a 2.5" spring like the NB top hat so its honestly zero gain and the billies w/ coilovers have been accepted this way for years now.

 

image.png.eb8ec7791f000ec5fdf9e513350681e1.png

We have billies and we were charged 40 points (by Jay) for having nb top hats.😥

Edited by espog
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29 minutes ago, espog said:

We have billies and we were charged 40 points (by Jay) for having nb top hats.😥

Jay said the same thing at Sonoma.  So I started an email with Tech and Chisek bc CCES posted to the world that the Penske's fell under the 10pt/corner coilover kit value.  The Penskes require the same NB top hat as the billies so for NA cars its an EXTRA 40pts/vehicle if you have the Billies, but if you have the Penskes they are saying its NOT an additional 40pts.  Chisek was unaware that the penske kit was basically the same kit with the different damper and used the same tophat.  

 

So it was left with no resolution but my ask was this:  Either the NB tophats are considered part of the coilover kit or the Penskes also have to take an additional 10pts/corner hit like the Billies SM coilover kit does.  Whichever way they go, they just need to be consistent.

 

Oh and to feed the @Huggy fire that values change, on a whim by tech or CCES leadership throughout the year, we have been running an SM coilover kit on our NA (using NB tophats) since 2017 and NEVER were charged for the tophats until it was brought up at Sonoma.  We have always claimed, and I quote: "Spec Miata Coilover Kit - 10pts/corner" and "Bilstein Dampers - within 2x"

Edited by Alchemy Autosport
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