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Chris M

VIR 24 Sunday AM crash #300 8-10am stint

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@Chris M - sorry for your loss.  Many of us have lost cars over the years, but few of us have lost them in such a ridiculous manner.

 

I think @Chip does a great job of summing the important points up.  Crash is 100% their fault though, even though you were on a non-traditional line for that part of the straight.  The one thing that caused me to watch it over and over is the number of times that your driver looks in the left hand mirror.  It seems like he is fully aware that the MCM car is there, or is incredulous and saying "can I trust my eyes?".  But he looks multiple times.  I think the lesson for those of us that look for a lesson in everything (that would be me), is that if you find yourself saying "are they really that crazy/stupid/drunk?", at some point you go with the answer "yes" and just try to ease out of their way.  Similar to looking both ways at a green light on New Year's Eve.

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13 minutes ago, Racer28173 said:

@Chris M - sorry for your loss.  Many of us have lost cars over the years, but few of us have lost them in such a ridiculous manner.

 

I think @Chip does a great job of summing the important points up.  Crash is 100% their fault though, even though you were on a non-traditional line for that part of the straight.  The one thing that caused me to watch it over and over is the number of times that your driver looks in the left hand mirror.  It seems like he is fully aware that the MCM car is there, or is incredulous and saying "can I trust my eyes?".  But he looks multiple times.  I think the lesson for those of us that look for a lesson in everything (that would be me), is that if you find yourself saying "are they really that crazy/stupid/drunk?", at some point you go with the answer "yes" and just try to ease out of their way.  Similar to looking both ways at a green light on New Year's Eve.

Were we looking at different videos? I saw the driver check the left mirror soon after passing the 240, and then he checks the right side mirror many times leading up to the crash and never looks at the left again. I thought he was watching someone on the passenger side approaching and was creeping left to make room. 

 

Look at head position when he is alongside the 240, that is his “looking straight ahead” position. Then watch from there and look at deviations left and right from that neutral position. It is one look left, and several looks right, with head returning to neutral after each glance. 

Edited by enginerd
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1 minute ago, enginerd said:

Were we looking at different videos? I saw the driver check the left mirror soon after passing the 240, and then he checks the right side mirror many times leading up to the crash and never looks at the left again. I thought he was watching someone on the passenger side approaching and was creeping left to make room. 

 There is a dark car visible in the HJ video to the right, I'm sure the #300 driver was glancing at it.

Edited by the.cheat

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19 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Were we looking at different videos? I saw the driver check the left mirror soon after passing the 240, and then he checks the right side mirror many times leading up to the crash and never looks at the left again. I thought he was watching someone on the passenger side approaching and was creeping left to make room. 

 

Look at head position when he is alongside the 240, that is his “looking straight ahead” position. Then watch from there and look at deviations left and right from that neutral position. It is one look left, and several looks right, with head returning to neutral after each glance. 

I think your correct, looking at it on a larger screen the driver seems to be looking right and almost doesn’t see the car on the left

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5 hours ago, 67Mustang said:

 

 

There is always fisticuffs, but that is usually always a bad option as well....

 

It would depend on how arrogant the driver was when you went to ask them about their driving skills. Not saying I would go looking for trouble,but ,knowing what it takes in time,energy. and $$$ to build a car,there is something to be said about a clandestine meeting out by the trailers. Especially for a move like that. My point being that could have gotten someone seriously hurt or worse. If blatant behavior like that is tolerated it's only a matter of time.

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Edited by Ian Moone
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We raced with them twice this year and they were clowns at both events. They dive bomb every chance they get and just expect you to move out of the way. They seem to think that driving like a bag of di$ks is “skill”. 

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20 hours ago, Chris M said:

The Champ Car staff chastised and reiterated this point to Matthew Anderson after the incident.

 

I don't care if you are left, center or right, your car was traveling in a straight line.  All he had to do was lift a little and pass on the right.  Sometimes you get stuck behind a slower car eventually you can work around it.  These are 24 hour races! 

 

This looks like someone who has spent too much time in video game simulators with damage turned off. 

 

Do you know what penalties were assessed on their driver/car by ChampCar for this incident?

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^^^^^  This. There is no such thing as a 'traditional line'. The driver made a clean pass of the 240, cleared him completely and moved to the left (off line!!) and maintained his position and speed knowing there were other cars to his right.

 

The punt was egregious and seriously needs to be looked at by the powers that be especially after Indy.

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8 hours ago, mcoppola said:

Paul, after talking with you at Indy, and seeing the damage to your car - and especially seeing the Connolly car from before and after the event - I was waiting for you to chime in.

For many of us racing in ChampCar, 1 of the main reasons we are here is because of the affordability this series provides us.

Having said that, an accident that would scrap our car would be devastating to have to start all over again.

Teams such as Connolly's or Tuttle's, that obviously have bigger budgets than most of us, and have often times shown blatant disrespect for their competitors - need to be reprimanded or banned, IMHO.

Yes, they enter many races, but if they total low budget teams' cars every time they race, then the series is also losing revenue - revenue that is coming from teams who the series was intentionally meant for.

Paul's post says it all. If teams are looking at who's entered, and avoiding those races, it's bad for the series as a whole. Part of the reason we enter the lesser attended races is because we are not the most experienced team out there, and we could ill afford to start all over again.

MIke, I am with you 100% on this.  We have certain teams we know have "issues" on track.  We try to avoid them and do watch to see who all is entered at events before we go.  At Indy that car came to pit road and looked like a $10k used car....after the first day I don't think it had a panel on it that wasn't damaged. Pair that with having to tell them multiple times to put down visors, wear gloves, etc as a pit marshal, only to have them b!@Ch me out after a stop for costing them time, I have no sympathy.  Play by the rules, or get parked.  I seriously like the idea of scannable tags on helmets and logging incidents for cars/drivers at events.  Indy was crazy on Sunday with stupid, yes stupid, contact.  This one is inexcusable and I think if I was in charge I might have just cut the driver band and said "see ya", had that system been in place. 

And, yes I'm ranting, this is the guy that was talking crap about the series when he came here and spouting credentials, paying a mechanic $15k and a place to live to win a freaking metal sculpture.  Maybe I'm a simple minded Midwesterner, but as they say in the South, bless your heart sir, you earned it....

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7 hours ago, 67Mustang said:

There is always fisticuffs, but that is usually always a bad option as well....

 

I've been mad enough once to consider this due to an equally egregious hit which luckily did not total my car.  Honest mistakes I can understand - this type I cannot.  If this keeps happening I will have to move on.  It will be unfortunate as I really do love this type of racing. 

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It is odd that a person just being a jerk can cost you thousands and endanger your health.....all in the name of sport....well there are a number of fighting sports also...I have pledged to myself that I will practice one of those  on any competitor that uses a car to try and jack me around....

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@hotchkis23 Good reminder Aaron. I (and probably most others) forgot that this indeed WAS the same person/team that not only ranted on social medium about how bad of a series ChampCar is, he then went so far as to try to justify his comments with additional jabs at the series.

They have shown disrespect in their words AND their actions. 

 

I take my responsibilities on the TAC seriously as a 'voice of the customer' to try to maintain a fair and safe playground for everyone. Most of the time, our TAC responsibilities focus on rules - this time, I am hearing what you are all saying, as racers trying to keep their cars and drivers safe and free from intentional disrespect/abuse/damage/injury. 

 

Mike Chisek does not participate in this forum any more. I'm sure he hears some of what is talked about on here, but the best way to get his attention about any type of issue or question is to write to him directly. If you guys are truly unhappy with certain teams' behaviors, and want to see something done about it, I urge you to email him to let your feelings be known.

 

edit: shortened my rant

Edited by mcoppola
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4 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

@hotchkis23 

Mike Chisek does not participate in this forum any more. I'm sure he hears some of what is talked about on here, but the best way to get his attention about any type of issue or question is to write to him directly. If you guys are truly unhappy with certain teams' behaviors, and want to see something done about it, I urge you to email him to let your feelings be known.

Glad to hear CC stays away from forums.   Threads like this can get toxic in my opinion.  I would hope well documented, serious concerns go through the proper formal channels for review.    For me, I can't get the Salem Witch Trials movie I saw in the 1980's out of my mind on this thread.   See you guys next go around!

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19 hours ago, mcoppola said:

Paul, after talking with you at Indy, and seeing the damage to your car - and especially seeing the Connolly car from before and after the event - I was waiting for you to chime in.

For many of us racing in ChampCar, 1 of the main reasons we are here is because of the affordability this series provides us.

Having said that, an accident that would scrap our car would be devastating to have to start all over again.

Teams such as Connolly's or Tuttle's, that obviously have bigger budgets than most of us, and have often times shown blatant disrespect for their competitors - need to be reprimanded or banned, IMHO.

Yes, they enter many races, but if they total low budget teams' cars every time they race, then the series is also losing revenue - revenue that is coming from teams who the series was intentionally meant for.

Paul's post says it all. If teams are looking at who's entered, and avoiding those races, it's bad for the series as a whole. Part of the reason we enter the lesser attended races is because we are not the most experienced team out there, and we could ill afford to start all over again.

 

You hit on a lot of good points. I was lucky that he only took a chunk out of one of my (pretty cheap) wheels, it could have been FAR worse.

I'm in the same boat - if my car was totaled it would be devestating. Took every spare penny I had and many months of time to build that car. I'd probably just take a hiatus from racing if it was written off. And let's just say they won't want to see me.

Edited by Slugworks Paul

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2 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

 

You hit on a lot of good points. I was lucky that he only took a chunk out of one of my (pretty cheap) wheels, it could have been FAR worse.

I'm in the same boat - if my car was totaled it would be devestating. Took every spare penny I had and many months of time to build that car. I'd probably just take a hiatus from racing if it was written off. And let's just say they won't want to see me.

Tell me about it.  I am cirrently building my replacement car from an incident at Charlotte that wasn't my fault....

 

It will be better and less expensive than the first time I built one, but it is still a giant pain in the wallet.

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Our team brings paint markers to races to decorate our car, but if someone wanted to "artisticly" decorate this car, I would look the other way. It may not be justice, but a big dong with some hairy balls on this e46 would probably help ease the pain a bit. 

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9 hours ago, Chris Hebert said:

Glad to hear CC stays away from forums.   Threads like this can get toxic in my opinion.  I would hope well documented, serious concerns go through the proper formal channels for review.    For me, I can't get the Salem Witch Trials movie I saw in the 1980's out of my mind on this thread.   See you guys next go around!

That type of driving IS toxic but you're right this is nothing more than a witch hunt.  The offending team just needs a safe space, a puppy and a hug and everything will be okay.

 

Edited by Red Rocket
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25 minutes ago, Red Rocket said:

 

That type of driving IS toxic but you're right this is nothing more than a witch hunt.  The offending team just needs a safe space, a puppy and a hug and everything will be okay.

 

 

You forgot "and to change their behavior"

I've emailed Chisek about this with a link to videos from my car. I urge others to do the same and maybe this can be resolved.

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3 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

 

You forgot "and to change their behavior"

I've emailed Chisek about this with a link to videos from my car. I urge others to do the same and maybe this can be resolved.

 

This is the best path forward. Also if people haven't shared their videos with Chisek from Indy, they should. It's also best to have more than one video of the incident. DAMHIK. 

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15 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

 

You forgot "and to change their behavior"
 

My apologies Brother.

 

And to change their behavior they shall be beat like an Iraqi prisoner.

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13 minutes ago, Red Rocket said:

My apologies Brother.

 

And to change their behavior they shall be beat like an Iraqi prisoner.


Is that what it'll take to make them listen? If so, how unfortunate.

 

Edited by Slugworks Paul

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10 hours ago, Chris Hebert said:

Glad to hear CC stays away from forums.   Threads like this can get toxic in my opinion.  I would hope well documented, serious concerns go through the proper formal channels for review.    For me, I can't get the Salem Witch Trials movie I saw in the 1980's out of my mind on this thread.   See you guys next go around!

I think your phrase Salem Witch Trial is off base.  This is not deliberate harassment or accusations made freely  you clearly do not know this character.  His attitude is arrogant on and off the track and it appears it attracts drivers of the same.

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12 hours ago, mostmint said:

I've been mad enough once to consider this due to an equally egregious hit which luckily did not total my car. 

 

Was it with the Turtle Eclipse at Nelson Ledges in 2013? because if it was, that driver hasn't raced with us since.

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25 minutes ago, Tim_ said:

 

Was it with the Turtle Eclipse at Nelson Ledges in 2013? because if it was, that driver hasn't raced with us since.

LOL no that was just driver error he was right ahead of us when he lost it and my driver did not react in time due to proximity.   

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On 8/13/2019 at 12:23 PM, Slugworks Paul said:

Connolly's team and cars, and Matt himself, have now had many incidents of a beligerant lack of respect for the rules and on-track etiquette.

This team needs to be dealt with immediately. I'll be looking at the entry list of every race I enter for his team, to make sure to either not attend that race or tell my drivers specifically which car to avoid.

 

You can only avoid cars like this for so long. Unless your lapping at their pace and on the opposite side of the track, eventually you’re going to meet. We’re pretty slow out there and every time I saw that car coming up on me I crossed my fingers. Dive bombs, sketchy 3 wide lunges. I wish our camera had been working. I’d be happy to add to Mike Chisek’s viewing library. 

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