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turbogrill

filler tube in driver compartment

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Hi,

 

Our 2006 Miata currently has the filler tube in the driver compartment, half of it is steel and half of it is rubber.

I need to replace/encapsulate the rubber section right?

 

Any suggestions on how to do it?

 

Here are some pics

 

 

"ALL FUEL CELLS AND FUEL COMPONENTS MUST BE ENCLOSED IN A METAL CANISTER / ENCLOSURE. 9.10.2.7.1. All fuel cells and fuel components (fill tubes, vent lines, etc)shall be separated from the driver compartment by a metal bulkhead. All lines and fittings that pass through the cabin of the vehicle must be metal or must be encased in continuous steel conduit or aluminum tube. The metal canister that makes up the fuel cell does not count as a bulkhead"

20190817_125833.jpg

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Not quite. You need to encapsulate all of it. Even the steel stuff. Need a 2nd barrier.

Edited by enginerd

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If so, make sure you don't replace that easily cut stock rubber filler tube with an aftermarket filler tube like this:

image.jpeg.c1c43fea6d49e2bc33aa80819d3e13e9.jpeg

You'll have to put in a metal bulkhead to protect it even though it's much thicker and tougher than the OEM rubber filler hose.

 

'Cause OEM fuel related stuff that meets the absolute minimum standard and may not even do that much because of accountants that manage to substitute materials on the assembly line to save a few pennies per car is soooo much safer than fuel cells and related parts that were designed to survive in an actual racing environment.

Edited by mender
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11 minutes ago, mender said:

If so, make sure you don't replace that easily cut stock rubber filler tube with an aftermarket filler tube like this:

image.jpeg.c1c43fea6d49e2bc33aa80819d3e13e9.jpeg

You'll have to put in a metal bulkhead to protect it even though it's much thicker and tougher than the OEM rubber filler hose.

 

'Cause OEM fuel related stuff that meets the absolute minimum standard and may not even do that much because of accountants that manage to substitute materials on the assembly line to save a few pennies per car is soooo much safer than the fuel cell and related parts that were designed to survive in an actual racing environment.

 

What you did there.  I seent it.

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10 hours ago, enginerd said:

Not quite. You need to encapsulate all of it. Even the steel stuff. Need a 2nd barrier.

 

Where is that in the rules? 

 

It's 100% stock if that matters

 

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3 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Where is that in the rules? 

It's 100% stock if that matters

 

Oh, I guess the solid steel stuff is fine.. but it will be much easier to encapsulate the rubber section if you also do the steel section in one large tube.

Edited by enginerd

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49 minutes ago, enginerd said:

 

Oh, I guess the solid steel stuff is fine.. but it will be much easier to encapsulate the rubber section if you also do the steel section in one large tube.

 

Aha so like a large tube over everything. Wonder if there is a steel conduit that is flexible.  

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6 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

Aha so like a large tube over everything. Wonder if there is a steel conduit that is flexible.  

It's all stock stuff in the trunk of the car, not fuel cell or fuel lines that pass through the cabin.

 

Not seeing a rule that forces people to change or cover OEM fuel parts, only aftermarket/fuel cell parts.

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32 minutes ago, mender said:

It's all stock stuff in the trunk of the car, not fuel cell or fuel lines that pass through the cabin.

 

Not seeing a rule that forces people to change or cover OEM fuel parts, only aftermarket/fuel cell parts.

 

Hmmm good point!

 

I will clarify with tech. thanks

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1 hour ago, mender said:

It's all stock stuff in the trunk of the car, not fuel cell or fuel lines that pass through the cabin.

 

Not seeing a rule that forces people to change or cover OEM fuel parts, only aftermarket/fuel cell parts.

Whether it's OE or not, if it's a fuel component / fitting / line exposed to the driver compartment, then it needs to be covered / bulkheaded, unless it's a metal line (defined by tech as solid [not braided] tubing):

 

 

All fuel cells and fuel components (fill tubes, vent lines, etc)shall be separated from the driver compartment by a metal bulkhead. All lines and fittings that pass through the cabin of the vehicle must be metal or must be encased in continuous steel conduit or aluminum tube.

Edited by enginerd
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1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

 

Hmmm good point!

 

I will clarify with tech. thanks

Let us know what you find out. 

 

How many races have you run with the stock OEM parts?

Edited by mender

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First race with car, haven't been etched yet.

I will figure something out to cover it.

 

Would be nice if there is a durable flexible conduit. 

 

Thanks

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10 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

First race with car, haven't been etched yet.

I will figure something out to cover it.

 

Would be nice if there is a durable flexible conduit. 

 

Thanks

Might be easier to figure out a sheet metal bulkhead that closes off the trunk area, hard to tell from the picture.

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Would be nice if there is a durable flexible conduit. 

 

Thanks

IF all else fails, read the rules.

They expressly forbid flexible conduit.

Section 9.10.3 - Fuel Fillers and Fuel Lines, and subsection 9.10.3.5 pertain to all cars, whether they have a fuel cell or not.

 

Edited by mcoppola
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The slk had this setup stock. We ended up bulkheading the fuel system from the driver at the rear seat, as this was easier than building a cover around the tank only. We then ended up making a top plate cover anyway, because people would rest tools\parts etc on it when working in the trunk of the car (were afraid they would break something). 

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Couldn't find the best picture,   Just build put an aluminum bulk head behind the seat and where the "package tray was.    Seal it up between the trunk and passenger compartment.   

 

Image may contain: outdoor

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10 hours ago, mcoppola said:

IF all else fails, read the rules.

They expressly forbid flexible conduit.

Section 9.10.3 - Fuel Fillers and Fuel Lines, and subsection 9.10.3.5 pertain to all cars, whether they have a fuel cell or not.

I don’t remember a ban on conduit... also, the definition of conduit varies from person to person. A solid tube generally used to route wires, made of soft enough metal to be bent with hand tools would work quite well to shroud some fuel lines. I used aluminium tubing to shroud my fuel hoses, bent easily with some heat. 

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4 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I don’t remember a ban on conduit... also, the definition of conduit varies from person to person. A solid tube generally used to route wires, made of soft enough metal to be bent with hand tools would work quite well to shroud some fuel lines. I used aluminium tubing to shroud my fuel hoses, bent easily with some heat. 

I think the ban is on FLEX conduit.  Flex is the stuff that bends freely and doesn’t hold a specific position.  The stuff you used, while flexible enough to bend, isn’t Flex.  

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I would love to see some examples of what people are doing for fuel fillers that pass through the passenger compartment enclosed in metal (that have passed tech this year).  

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46 minutes ago, hcsi99 said:

I would love to see some examples of what people are doing for fuel fillers that pass through the passenger compartment enclosed in metal (that have passed tech this year).  

2nd this. This topic specifically seems to be ever-changing in rule and enforcement.

From someone who has been here since the beginning - Condren had a similar rule about having an additional bulkhead separate from fuel cell canister, which wasn't enforced (we built one at the time, though), so it was eventually removed (I think). Now it's back, and actually being enforced to some degree as far as I can tell.

 

I'm torn on the rule. I think in concept it's not a bad idea, but we're not in-line with similar road racing organizations which I think hurts us. I'm not usually in favor of more rules but I think a better idea than the bulkhead rule is having a fire suppression nozzle pointed at fuel system components in the driver compartment.

 

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I can visually and olfactorily check my filler tube and fuel cell installation by sticking my head inside my car. 

 

Covering up a poor installation with a bulkhead prevents tech inspection and increases the likelihood of concentrating the fuel vapours enough to allow explosive ignition.

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6 minutes ago, mender said:

 

Covering up a poor installation with a bulkhead prevents tech inspection and increases the likelihood of concentrating the fuel vapours enough to allow explosive ignition.

 

100% this.   If you have a metal filler tube there is no need for more metal.   Covering everything up prevents owners AND tech from inspecting components for condition and leaks.    

 

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3 hours ago, Snake said:

 

100% this.   If you have a metal filler tube there is no need for more metal.   Covering everything up prevents owners AND tech from inspecting components for condition and leaks.    

 

 

One section is rubber. This is 100% oem.

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