2020 rules are live

[Ron_e]

Discuss

[Snorman]

I like the changes to the National Championship and making it a "winner take all" event rather than accumulating points based on top two finishes. I believe the 5 race minimum to qualify is appropriate. We'll have to see what we'd need to do to qualify for 2021 in the Cobra. 

I do not like the requirement to install the Flagtronics system. We were less-than-impressed with it at Road Atlanta. Perhaps it has improved but do not feel this is a reasonable requirement. 

My assumption is that the highlighted items represent the items that were edited and no other changes were made. 

[Cam Benty]

$2500.00 for engine swap but not an option to help fuel starved cars. So much for leveling the playing field.

[Bill Strong]

2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

 

My assumption is that the highlighted items represent the items that were edited and no other changes were made. 

 

you are correct.

 

 

[Snorman]

1 minute ago, Bill Strong said:

you are correct.

Thanks for clarifying. 

 

[veris]

There is a typo in the document. I believe this should say Intake Manifold: 25 points. 

 

[veris]

2 hours ago, Snorman said:

I like the changes to the National Championship and making it a "winner take all" event rather than accumulating points based on top two finishes. I believe the 5 race minimum to qualify is appropriate. We'll have to see what we'd need to do to qualify for 2021 in the Cobra. 

I do not like the requirement to install the Flagtronics system. We were less-than-impressed with it at Road Atlanta. Perhaps it has improved but do not feel this is a reasonable requirement. 

My assumption is that the highlighted items represent the items that were edited and no other changes were made. 

 

I'm definitely not a fan of the 5 race minimum to qualify. I would have prefered 4. With Brainerd out of the schedule the closest ChampCar track to me is 16 hours. With most races being double weekends I need to make atleast 3.  

 

All the new rules are making this sport more expensive. Flagtronic, 2500 swap, more races to qualify, etc...  We should be going the opposite direction in regards to cost. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by veris

[Chris Huggins]

The flagtronics requirement is shady at best.

 

champcar should be ashamed

 

 

the technology is not ready - it’s a crutch for not paying attention to what’s happening, like backup cameras being a crutch for situational awareness.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Huggy

[wvumtnbkr]

5 races?

 

Geez!  

 

I guess I won't be going to another championship.

 

Fark me!

 

Was all of this stuff in the petitions?  The changing of the championship doesn't seem to be a safety issue.  

Edited September 1, 2019 by wvumtnbkr

[Team Infiniti]

Like mentioned earlier, for logistical and financial reasons, 5 races is a bit steep, in my mind, 4 races are the sweet spot.

[LuckyKid]

RIP Front Wing.

 

 

[wvumtnbkr]

This 5 races thing is really bothering me...

 

How many teams do 5 races in one year with 1 car?

 

I might do 5 races a year (have done this twice in 10 years) but some of those are in other people's cars or in other series.

 

Why not 3 races?  What's the downside?

 

The same people would still be qualified by way of the points system.

 

What does the 5 race thing do other than make it seem like a blatant move to make people enter more races?

Edited September 1, 2019 by wvumtnbkr

[LuckyKid]

10 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

This 5 races thing is really bothering me...

 

How many teams do 5 races in one year with 1 car?

 

I might do 5 races a year (have done this twice in 10 years) but some of those are in other people's cars or in other series.

 

Why not 3 races?  What's the downside?

 

The same people would still be qualified by way of the points system.

 

What does the 5 race thing do other than make it seem like a blatant move to make people enter more races?

I believe they discussed this at the annual meeting.  I think the logic is that the championship is for the entire year, so requiring more races would weed out a team that might only race one weekend and qualify.

 

[wvumtnbkr]

8 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

I believe they discussed this at the annual meeting.  I think the logic is that the championship is for the entire year, so requiring more races would weed out a team that might only race one weekend and qualify.

 

Then make it 2 weekends.  Boom.  Done.

 

And if a team only shows up 1 weekend, qualifies, shows up to the championship and wins....  well, great job!

[craig71188]

Don't care about "national championship" - if the "championship race" is not close, who's really going to travel across the country to compete?  This is not the SCCA (Runoffs), or is that Champcar's goal?  BTW...not a good plan to follow a now failing business model.

 

More speed creep (although not free) carb/intake/throttle body.

 

Flagtronics - their own website has a video showing a flag station going green and then a 3 second delay to the box in car.  So I see a green flag, accelerate and then can be penalized for  for "racing under yellow".  Website has no pricing info, no location, Champcar is the only one using it.  Just smells real bad from here.

 

Can't say I'm impressed with direction taken so far.   

[wvumtnbkr]

I do have to admit that I read it as 5 race weekends, not 3.  I still think 2 race weekends is more appropriate.

[Richard]

1 hour ago, craig71188 said:

Flagtronics - their own website has a video showing a flag station going green and then a 3 second delay to the box in car.  So I see a green flag, accelerate and then can be penalized for  for "racing under yellow".  Website has no pricing info, no location, Champcar is the only one using it.  Just smells real bad from here.

 

So much of this.

 

Inexpensive compared to what? Zero real information on the website and not one single series uses it. Yellow flag but green on my dashboard, now what? And vice versa. What if it shuts off? What if it malfunctions in any way?

Let me take a stab at the answer to these questions: Obey the flag stations...

 

 Surely before you make something mandatory there should be copious amounts of real world, Professional series testing and use. See on board extinguishers, Hans etc.

 

 

[QuaTTro]

23 minutes ago, Richard said:

 

So much of this.

 

Inexpensive compared to what? Zero real information on the website and not one single series uses it. Yellow flag but green on my dashboard, now what? And vice versa. What if it shuts off? What if it malfunctions in any way?

Let me take a stab at the answer to these questions: Obey the flag stations...

 

 Surely before you make something mandatory there should be copious amounts of real world, Professional series testing and use. See on board extinguishers, Hans etc.

 

 

 Not to mention that we don’t need any more reason to keep our eyes focused inside the car.

 

Training our minds and eyes to scan near and far for flags, incidents, cars, passing opportunities, etc are what we should be encouraging. Sure, you can still do this even with the Flagtronics system, but we can be pretty confident that a system like this will have people watching the box and blaming technology for issues.

 

I can see it now, as a newbie rental driver hops in the car “hey man, don’t worry about that flag stuff they talked about in the drivers meeting. Just watch this little box and mash the throttle when you see green”

[Ian]

Tested the fragtronics thing last year, ended up unplugging it like 20 minutes into the stint.  Too bright, too delayed, and very distracting in the car.  I won't be buying one right now.

 

That being said, being required should provide funding, testing data, and feedback to significantly speed up development.  This just comes at a cost to early adopters.  Hopefully CC doesn't get left holding a case of buggy, feature poor, early generation units when all the money and feedback lead to an evolution.

[Ron_e]

@Bill Strong are there any changes to the VPI table for 2020?  Looks like the 2020 swap calculator points to the same place as the 2019 swap calculator.

[67Mustang]

I notice that car to car contact will result in a mando black flag time penalty in 2020......  is that for both or just the hitter??  wouldn't think the hittie should get a penalty for getting punted...

[hotrod]

5 races could be as little as 3 weekends. Double 8's is 2 races in one weekend. I did like the racing for points for the championship. I think this new format of win & your the Champion could stop teams from going.

[veris]

3 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

This 5 races thing is really bothering me...

 

How many teams do 5 races in one year with 1 car?

 

...

I hadn't thought of that. We have two cars and probably can't ever qualify with this rule. 

 

My team (and Ron E's) are probably the most exceptional cases being a few hours north of North Dakota and Montana, but anyone in the North Central is screwed with this rule. There just aren't enough races within reasonable towing distance.  I'm taking 3 days off work to make the "close" 16 hr tow races. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by veris

[Richard]

That Flagtronics video gives no real info at all either. It shows the in car system turning yellow after the flag station and goes no further than saying a car without the system passes under yellow. How do we know that the next flag station isn't green already.

 

 What a great system. Always lagging behind the Marshalls. Maybe, just maybe it can work under full course yellow conditions once all the stations are yellow.

[Bill Strong]

1 hour ago, Ron_e said:

@Bill Strong are there any changes to the VPI table for 2020?  Looks like the 2020 swap calculator points to the same place as the 2019 swap calculator.

 

I have a new VPI I need to add tonight. I am on the road home from Thompson right now.