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2020 rules are live

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On 9/19/2019 at 8:32 PM, hotchkis23 said:

16.4 gallon Mazda 6

is someone running a 1st gen mazda 6 in this series?? my inner builder is stirred...

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On 9/19/2019 at 11:11 AM, red0 said:

 

People ballooning their tanks was not specific to a make (Honda). Once tech found out people were doing it, they outlawed it. 

As you are aware, fuel capacity is important. If two cars of the same chassis have very different fuel capacities, their values should reflect that. 

The AP2 S2000 just got raised and it never even made top 10. I still think 500 points for an AP1 is low, but time will tell. 

 

As far As I know, there were no AP2 S2000 ever raced 

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4 hours ago, the5 said:

 

As far As I know, there were no AP2 S2000 ever raced 

Didn’t you just race one at VIR? Or was that an AP1?

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On 9/19/2019 at 8:07 PM, mender said:

Also the Neon guys.

 

Easy on some of us, I ran the cut hood\seat cushion to see over the pt cruiser intake setup to be legal. 

 

But yes, lots of guys did not........

 

Several makes dabble in which oem cam to use, the neon cam (in 2.4 engine ) being one of the least advantageous.  

 

The good neon cars run cams much bigger than that (good use of points) now, but I remember that being a big controversy 2014 or so. 

 

I think much of this would be better handled with "alternate approved packages" rather than the traditional swap rules. Give tech a chance to set values for a package of drive train in chassis that becomes a guide for future teams to follow (or get their own package approved). For my example i have yet to dyno a pt manifold vs a neon, but I would guess the two will have similar power with better midrange\torque going to the pt manifold (better top end to the shorter runner neon). For teams that want to close the hood approve a engine\engine mods and trans\diff to go with the neon platform and that VPI\package become the alternative to running a stock 2.0 (and buying engine mods with points per the usual). 

 

In the current implementation only a Nissan badge will allow you to swap an intake for free because you want to close your hood without cutting a hole in it..... Sometimes it is easier to list what you can do vs listing what you can't (and a list of exemptions to that rule)

Edited by Black Magic
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2 hours ago, Black Magic said:

 

Easy on some of us, I ran the cut hood\seat cushion to see over the pt cruiser intake setup to be legal. 

 

But yes, lots of guys did not........

 

Several makes dabble in which oem cam to use, the neon cam (in 2.4 engine ) being one of the least advantageous.  

 

The good neon cars run cams much bigger than that (good use of points) now, but I remember that being a big controversy 2014 or so. 

 

I think much of this would be better handled with "alternate approved packages" rather than the traditional swap rules. Give tech a chance to set values for a package of drive train in chassis that becomes a guide for future teams to follow (or get their own package approved). For my example i have yet to dyno a pt manifold vs a neon, but I would guess the two will have similar power with better midrange\torque going to the pt manifold (better top end to the shorter runner neon). For teams that want to close the hood approve a engine\engine mods and trans\diff to go with the neon platform and that VPI\package become the alternative to running a stock 2.0 (and buying engine mods with points per the usual). 

 

In the current implementation only a Nissan badge will allow you to swap an intake for free because you want to close your hood without cutting a hole in it..... Sometimes it is easier to list what you can do vs listing what you can't (and a list of exemptions to that rule)

 

Mexican stratus cars are worth a good look, for intake manifolds.

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1 hour ago, Mopar 4 Life said:

 

Mexican stratus cars are worth a good look, for intake manifolds.

 

Good note. Never thought of that one. I have thought about cutting and shortening a metal cloud car mani, but opted to stay pt in the past and attempt to build my own for the future. 

 

If you are willing to move rad fwd in car a few inches newer stratus plastic looks like it could have potential. 

Edited by Black Magic

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Not that it matters much to our car, but curious why there is still 10pts each for engine/trans mounts (which many cars could be home-made with scraps) when a high $$$ wing is also 10pts? Seems to me that a wing would be far more advantageous than replacing rubber with plastic/polyurethane. The suspension bushings have been allowed for some time now. Seems (to me, anyways) that solid suspension is also more advantageous than engine/trans mounts, no?

 

Quote

 


• Mounts, non-OE, engine/transmission: 10 pts per engine /
10 pts per transmission

 

• Suspension bushings: OE replacement or polyurethane/
Delrin with OE geometry (OE hole location/offset, height,
thickness): 0 pts

 

 

 

 

Overall the series is much better than when we started with cut springs and touring replacement shocks!

 

RE: Championships, we (current team) have been running this series for many many years and have only done 4 events once (team captain started in '09, personally since '12) . Every year we do RA in Feb, DIS in Apr, SIR in Sept. The one year we did 4 events was the New Years SIR 10hr about 3yrs ago, but team consensus has us staying at home with family as the entire team is self employed - which is often mistranslated as "You're the boss, you can make your own hours" when it really means "You work 70 hours and take home salary for 30". lol Doubt we will ever enter a championship, we really enjoy doing our 3 races/yr, RA is the longest travel time at 12.5hr.

 

 

Edited by WOT-Tech
typos

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14 hours ago, WOT-Tech said:

Not that it matters much to our car, but curious why there is still 10pts each for engine/trans mounts (which many cars could be home-made with scraps) when a high $$$ wing is also 10pts? Seems to me that a wing would be far more advantageous than replacing rubber with plastic/polyurethane. The suspension bushings have been allowed for some time now. Seems (to me, anyways) that solid suspension is also more advantageous than engine/trans mounts, no?

 

Overall the series is much better than when we started with cut springs and touring replacement shocks!

 

I guess it really just depends on perspective. 
 

I agree the wing is more advantageous than the motor mounts. If anything, I would think the wing value should go up not the mount value go down. 

I think that overall the rules were better when we had to run cut springs and touring shocks. The B8 shocks and H&R race springs did not make the racing better, it just made my wallet lighter. 

I don't really think adding anything non OE should be 0 points. I liked things much better when the racing was cheaper. 

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38 minutes ago, red0 said:

I think that overall the rules were better when we had to run cut springs and touring shocks

Agree with all you say but want to point out, it is still possible to podium with such a setup.

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Agree with all you say but want to point out, it is still possible to podium with such a setup.

 

Oh absolutely. 
 

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20 hours ago, WOT-Tech said:

Not that it matters much to our car, but curious why there is still 10pts each for engine/trans mounts (which many cars could be home-made with scraps) when a high $$$ wing is also 10pts? Seems to me that a wing would be far more advantageous than replacing rubber with plastic/polyurethane. The suspension bushings have been allowed for some time now. Seems (to me, anyways) that solid suspension is also more advantageous than engine/trans mounts, no?

On our car fabbed motor mounts are a necessity.

We tried to figure out for a couple of years why we couldn't get camber set properly.  It turns out that the mounting points for the front subframe were offset 1/2" from the centerline of the shock towers.  Moving the subframe over to match moverd the engine over too much so offset motor mounts were needed.

VW Made crap cars in Brazil.

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2020 BCCR V1.0.1. Released - minor update

 

2020 BCCR ONLY
2020 BCCR V1.0.1. Released – minor update
https://champcar.org/mainweb/rules/

Updated by W. Strong 10/3/2019
Per BOD

1. 4.3.2. – added “Hub, non-OE/OEM: 2.5 pts each.

2. Added “hubs” to tech inspection form.

3. Changed BCCR version number to v1.0.1

4. Added 2020 events calendar – page 41.

5. Tech Form version updated – Rev: 1/1/2020 v1.1


Also added to the https://champcar.org/mainweb/rules/ page.
Updated BCCR file to v1.0.1.
Linked – 2020 Tech Form and 2020 Swap Form

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20 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

2020 BCCR V1.0.1. Released - minor update

 

2020 BCCR ONLY
2020 BCCR V1.0.1. Released – minor update
https://champcar.org/mainweb/rules/

Updated by W. Strong 10/3/2019
Per BOD

1. 4.3.2. – added “Hub, non-OE/OEM: 2.5 pts each.

2. Added “hubs” to tech inspection form.

3. Changed BCCR version number to v1.0.1

4. Added 2020 events calendar – page 41.

5. Tech Form version updated – Rev: 1/1/2020 v1.1


Also added to the https://champcar.org/mainweb/rules/ page.
Updated BCCR file to v1.0.1.
Linked – 2020 Tech Form and 2020 Swap Form

Awesome!   Did the "bar where people say crazy stuff and let off steam" actually help push this to print?

 

STARTING CHANT:  Front Wings!  Front Wings!  Front Wings!

 

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51 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

2020 BCCR V1.0.1. Released - minor update

 

2020 BCCR ONLY
2020 BCCR V1.0.1. Released – minor update
https://champcar.org/mainweb/rules/

Updated by W. Strong 10/3/2019
Per BOD

1. 4.3.2. – added “Hub, non-OE/OEM: 2.5 pts each.

2. Added “hubs” to tech inspection form.

3. Changed BCCR version number to v1.0.1

4. Added 2020 events calendar – page 41.

5. Tech Form version updated – Rev: 1/1/2020 v1.1


Also added to the https://champcar.org/mainweb/rules/ page.
Updated BCCR file to v1.0.1.
Linked – 2020 Tech Form and 2020 Swap Form

Thank you Bill!!!

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It sucks when I have to work during the week, and when I am at the track. lol

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