Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Don't worry @Doc, this thread derail is irrelevant now that is known you are interested in continuing.

 

We support your bid for reelection.ūü•į

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/28/2019 at 5:43 PM, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

Mike stated if a stock exhaust manifold does not fit in a swap you can replace it with other headers. Imo they should be like size headers and non performing. I know there is an Ecotec out there that has done it with the stock manifolds. 

On the Ecotec engine exhaust headers are completely open.

  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, National Tech said:

On the Ecotec engine exhaust headers are completely open.

 

Ok, back on topic.  Doc - what is your stance here?  Should this be fixed?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, National Tech said:

On the Ecotec engine exhaust headers are completely open.

There is a true racing header that should NOT be allowed without points.  I have a photo I'll post tonight (on my home computer).  The commonly used Polaris header is not a racing header, a la 4-2-1.  The Polaris header is a simple 4-1 manifold.  There is a big difference.  I'm not sure how tech is saying its completely open.  When you see the difference you all might understand.  Even though I drive an ecotec swap, I am against the use of a true racing header without points.  

Edited by Jer
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Jer said:

There is a true racing header that should NOT be allowed without points.  I have a photo I'll post tonight (on my home computer).  The commonly used Polaris header is not a racing header, a la 4-2-1.  The Polaris header is a simple 4-1 manifold.  There is a big difference.  I'm not sure how tech is saying its completely open.  When you see the difference you all might understand.  Even though I drive an ecotec swap, I am against the use of a true racing header without points.  

100% agree!  We are the team using a stock manifold on our car.  We also have the polaris header.  We dyno'd both and have seen how they perform.  We will continue to use the stock manifold after seeing the results on an actual dyno.  The other 4-2-1 header should be points, I agree with you Jer and hope tech can asses it the same as I believe it is worth a substantial gain in hp.

 

Also, to stay on track, I support Doc in his bid for reelection.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, hotchkis23 said:

100% agree!  We are the team using a stock manifold on our car.  We also have the polaris header.  We dyno'd both and have seen how they perform.  We will continue to use the stock manifold after seeing the results on an actual dyno.  The other 4-2-1 header should be points, I agree with you Jer and hope tech can asses it the same as I believe it is worth a substantial gain in hp.

 

Also, to stay on track, I support Doc in his bid for reelection.

How did they compare? :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Racing header for the ecotec motor:

true racing header ecotec.jpg

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, National Tech said:

On the Ecotec engine exhaust headers are completely open.

Then that means that all headers are open on all engines.

Unless this is one of those secret handshake rules that only the cool kids know about.

Is this in the rule book?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Slugworks Paul said:

How did they compare? :)

I want to know too!  LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

100% agree!  We are the team using a stock manifold on our car.

So you're saying that an aftermarket header isn't required to put an ecotec on a miata? That a header isn't needed to "make it work"? Hmmmmmmmm...

Way to go! Love it when people do the work to get things to work.

Edited by enginerd
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, enginerd said:

So you're saying that an aftermarket header isn't required to put an ecotec on a miata? That a header isn't needed to "make it work"? Hmmmmmmmm...

Way to go! Love it when people do the work to get things to work.

....and hate it when certain makes get special rules that only apply to them, and also aren't in the bccr.

 

5 hours ago, National Tech said:

On the Ecotec engine exhaust headers are completely open.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jer said:

Even though I drive an ecotec swap, I am against the use of a true racing header without points.  

 

So can we all swap to another manifold as long as it's not a "true racing header"?  The M52 manifold would look great on my M54 instead of the awful catalytic converter mess it comes with.  Why can't we all play by the same rules?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like a few more details on the "stock" header.  I don't know for sure it came with the motor in question.  Also, I think they might have had to route the exhaust straight through the cockpit.  Please confirm, guys.  I'm will to spend the money to rebuild my exhaust, but if the solution is what I think it might be, it was as straightforward as you all think.  

 

EDIT:  the "stock" header is not a stock header.  It comes from a Chevy Equinox and dynos within a couple HP of the Polaris one.  So no matter what, you cannot use a stock header to the motor.  

Edited by Jer
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Grufton said:

 

So can we all swap to another manifold as long as it's not a "true racing header"?  The M52 manifold would look great on my M54 instead of the awful catalytic converter mess it comes with.  Why can't we all play by the same rules?

does it dyno withing a couple hp of the stock one?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

does it dyno withing a couple hp of the stock one?

 

I don't see how that is relevant.  It's not stock, it should be points, period.  Same goes for the Ecotec engine in a Miata, or the Maxima/350 engine in a 240.

If you want to use dyno numbers, I can get some plots showing the LS1 makes the same power as an M54, so I should be able to swap that in for free, too.

Edited by Grufton
green font
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

Also, to stay on track, I support Doc in his bid for reelection.

 

I will be supporting Doc for his reelection bid as well. Having raced against him, had friends race with him, seen how he works with the rest of the BOD members, and having seen his dedication to the club and heard it during the broadcasts I have no doubt he will continue to do a good job on the BOD. 

 

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how about this thread about Doc's re-election get back on track and the ECOTEC header folks start a new thread.

I am sure Doc would be happier.

 

Oh and Doc you got my vote again!

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having worked with Doc, he has my vote.  He's done a great job on the Board.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been very happy with Doc's committment to this series.  He continues to work hard to promote and improve this series.  Doc will have my vote.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all. I will be happy to answer these questions in a few weeks as we have the time before voting actually opens.

Right now I am slammed with the Pitt Race ChampCar Live broadcast (please tune in!!!) AND getting our exhibit together for Petit LeMans.

By all means if you are attending Petit stop by our booth and say howdee!!!

We should have Cone Crushers 944 in the booth and I hear @Paulie has been up to something... I'm sure @Bill Strong has as well.

 

Just bear with me. Thanks,

Doc

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/1/2019 at 8:07 AM, Grufton said:

 

I don't see how that is relevant.  It's not stock, it should be points, period.  Same goes for the Ecotec engine in a Miata, or the Maxima/350 engine in a 240.

If you want to use dyno numbers, I can get some plots showing the LS1 makes the same power as an M54, so I should be able to swap that in for free, too.

There is no stock header that fits.  Read the whole thread.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Jer said:

There is no stock header that fits.  Read the whole thread.  

I'll say it again, per the rules if it's not stock it's points.  Nothing is said on whether or not the stock part fits, that's a choice the builder makes when they pick the combination.

 

We should treat every car the same.  When I was researching potential engine swaps some had transverse/longitudinal issues.  I assumed I'd need to pay points for a header if the combination didn't fit.  That's what the rules say after all.

 

I get it that the BoD is trying to make the best of 47 million combinations and about as many view points.  However, enforcing rules different than written should never be tolerated.  The optics are even worse when a BoD member is driving one of those examples.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Grufton said:

I'll say it again, per the rules if it's not stock it's points.  Nothing is said on whether or not the stock part fits, that's a choice the builder makes when they pick the combination.

 

We should treat every car the same.  When I was researching potential engine swaps some had transverse/longitudinal issues.  I assumed I'd need to pay points for a header if the combination didn't fit.  That's what the rules say after all.

 

I get it that the BoD is trying to make the best of 47 million combinations and about as many view points.  However, enforcing rules different than written should never be tolerated.  The optics are even worse when a BoD member is driving one of those examples.

Completely agree. By this logic in the rules, if I swap from my 1.6 to 1.8 in my miata I should get a ‚Äúracing header‚ÄĚ as long as it‚Äôs not full race but only semi race. Rules need to apply to everybody equally. Seems like it should be pretty simple.¬†

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/26/2019 at 12:57 PM, Jer said:

Not my thread but I agree, Doc.  There shouldn't be unwritten rules and point values.  Let's push this down on the Board and get the BCCR updated.  

 

On 9/27/2019 at 3:58 PM, Jer said:

Give an example and we will address it.  I have not seen that.  I agree we need consistency and I'm certain no one on the Board would disagree. 

 

2 hours ago, Jer said:

There is no stock header that fits.

 

Looks pretty hypocritical to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...