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Endurance series mandated tire

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48 minutes ago, bbaker480 said:

If we start mandating a spec tire teams that have the budget will do what any spec racer does and buy 12, toss/sell the worst 8 to end up with a set of 4.  They still will have a budgeted advantage over those of us running take off RS-4's even if we are suddenly mandated to start spending spec money to keep up appearances.  At least when @wvumtnbkr and I were racing 10th scale the tires were only $25ish for a pair, but I know there were weekends where a chunked tire or extra practice sessions cost literally hundreds of dollars.  Throw in a few motors so you could pick the best 'stock' motor of the 23 you have at the track and a weekend of racing toy cars turns into $500 pretty quick.  I love that ChampCar is open to rule interpretation, open to teams running what works best for them....  If we want to become a spec series can we at least pick something fun that nobody is currently running so we all have to buy in at the same time?  I vote for 60 degree V-6 swapped RX-7's!

Ouch.  Yep.  I guess there aren't any actual 60 degree v6 rx7s right now.

 

Hahaa

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22 hours ago, Black Magic said:

We are afraid to tell anyone to take stuff off their car, and instead ask everyone else to just add more to their car....

 

I agree that this is a major problem! 

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5 hours ago, red0 said:

 

I agree that this is a major problem! 

 

If you affect the majority it doesn't seem to be that big of a problem.  Some examples:

 

Surge tank reduced from 2 to 0.5 gallons.  Not much whining, we still have our 2 gallon on the shelf.

Hubs 2.5 points per.  Seems to have been minimal response.

Fender flares.  Whining about measurement method and material, not a lot about the flares themselves.

Going from zero to 50 points to swap a non-OE engine.  There was much ado years later about the swap formula as it wildly affected some and minimal to others.

Going from zero to 25 points for trans and 25 for diff swaps.  No reaction.

Aero devices went from materials to 10 points per.  Not sure if the points would be more or less going from material to assigned points, depends on the device.

 

If you target one car it stands out and causes a very big reaction, see E36, MR2, TBird, Mustang.

Edited by Ron_e

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Begin threadjack....

 

I would argue that the engine swap rules had a huge uproar from allowing too much horsepower for not enough points.

 

Also, I don't remember trans swaps being free.

 

I also don't remember any rules that allowed a 2 gallon surge tank.  How long ago was that?

 

Why don't we think of a way that we can actually get people on board with fuel for points instead of just pooing on all other rule changes? 

 

I'm in favor of using the swap calculator changed a bit to represent fuel for points instead of horsepower for points.  Whatcha think?

 

End thread jack....

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25 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Begin threadjack....

 

I would argue that the engine swap rules had a huge uproar from allowing too much horsepower for not enough points.

 

Also, I don't remember trans swaps being free.

 

I also don't remember any rules that allowed a 2 gallon surge tank.  How long ago was that?

 

Why don't we think of a way that we can actually get people on board with fuel for points instead of just pooing on all other rule changes? 

 

I'm in favor of using the swap calculator changed a bit to represent fuel for points instead of horsepower for points.  Whatcha think?

 

End thread jack....

 

The surge tank changed I think in 2013, maybe 2014.  It was 2 gallons until people were not using it as a surge, they were just using it as a gravity feed of two more gallons into the cell which was already +2 gallons so they were getting +4 gallons then putting a surge inside the cell.

 

Engine swaps used to be completely free if staying within the family, i.e. 302 to 350, not a lot of whining at that time.  When people wanted to swap out of family they needed a different trans, that was when the 25 points for trans came in.  The trans and diff swap at 25 points each came in at the same time.  The whining didn't come in until the swaps became somewhat successful, then people started crying,  "That's not fair!."  That was when the engine swap became 50 points for any size engine, even going from a 4 cylinder to a 454, that was when the real whining started, unlimited hp for 50 points, kind of like the 100 point turbo now.

 

Fuel for points is a dead issue.  Now that everything is pretty much zero points ChampCar and Lucky Dog look almost exactly the same, the only thing differentiating the two series now is fuel.

Edited by Ron_e

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I had a meeting with Michelin at Road Atlanta. in 2021ish they will have a Cup2 tire that is 240TW rated, but is 1/2 a second slower than the RE71R in their tests. I shared the 15" sizes you guys are racing. They seemed excited about entering this series. 

We won't be using a spec tire. that's just dumb.

 

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6 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

I had a meeting with Michelin at Road Atlanta. in 2021ish they will have a Cup2 tire that is 240TW rated, but is 1/2 a second slower than the RE71R in their tests. I shared the 15" sizes you guys are racing. They seemed excited about entering this series. 

We won't be using a spec tire. that's just dumb.

 

Sounds like a cheap tire....which teams are jumping to the tire that claims to be slower?   

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3 minutes ago, JDChristianson said:

Sounds like a cheap tire....which teams are jumping to the tire that claims to be slower?   

 

The ones that are willing to lose a 1/2 second if they can run a full season on 1 set of tires.

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2 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

The ones that are willing to lose a 1/2 second if they can run a full season on 1 set of tires.

A season on a set.......if your season is two weekends maybe.  

 

I should have have been more specific.  Which pointy end teams are going for the slow tire?    

 

I just hope that Bridgstine doesn’t make a 225 re71.  The temptation would be incredible.  

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1 minute ago, JDChristianson said:

 Which pointy end teams are going for the slow tire?

.5 off a re71 is acceptable to us for a price.

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2 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

.5 off a re71 is acceptable to us for a price.

 

Absolutely. I can make my car several seconds faster if I had money available. 

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26 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

.5 off a re71 is acceptable to us for a price.

 

23 minutes ago, red0 said:

 

Absolutely. I can make my car several seconds faster if I had money available. 

Fair enough.  We shall see how it plays out.  

 

 

At one time I heard from a reliable source the latest the Toyo’s that used to be 180 would pass a 300tw test.   It’s all bout marketing and not about how long the tire really lasts in a race   

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1 minute ago, JDChristianson said:

It’s all bout marketing and not about how long the tire really lasts in a race   

 

Race or day to day traffic, that is a number from the marketing team. There is an actual test with a common route that manufacturers run, but there is nothing preventing a tire company from stamping a lower number (faster wearing) on the sidewall. 

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34 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

.5 off a re71 is acceptable to us for a price.

I would go for that too if these tires lasted like RS4s on my Miata. 

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49 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

I had a meeting with Michelin at Road Atlanta. in 2021ish they will have a Cup2 tire that is 240TW rated, but is 1/2 a second slower than the RE71R in their tests. I shared the 15" sizes you guys are racing. They seemed excited about entering this series. 

We won't be using a spec tire. that's just dumb.

 

Sounds great! I may try them out in 2021.... but I will use the Bridgestones at Indy 🤣

 

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15 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Sounds great! I may try them out in 2021.... but I will use the Bridgestones at Indy 🤣

 

Don’t you mean when Andrew has some used ones you might try them. 😀.   Sorry couldn’t resist 

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

.5 off a re71 is acceptable to us for a price.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+Cup+2&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=54YR7PSC2XLOS&tab=Sizes

 

I know, not the new tire but close-out pricing for those who want to try them.

Edited by mender

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46 minutes ago, mender said:

Hmmm, no 15's or 16's at all. They're missing a big percentage of ChampCar teams by not offering these in smaller sizes.

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1 hour ago, JDChristianson said:

Don’t you mean when Andrew has some used ones you might try them. 😀.   Sorry couldn’t resist 

 

It's the truth though! 

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We now have a Maxxis VR-1 contingency. 
We are just awaiting the required decals from Maxxis.
You DO NOT have to run the tires or the decals!
You DO NOT have to run the tires or the decals!

You DO NOT have to run the tires or the decals!

You DO NOT have to run the tires or the decals!

 

But if you want the free tires, you have to run the decal on the front fenders sides. 
and have at least two Maxxis VR-1 tires on for the duration of the event. and have a receipt showing you purchased 4 tires.
Overall positions only, no class,...
1st place - 4 free tires
2nd place - 3 free tires
3rd place - 2 free tires
4th - 10th place - 1 free tire.

All of the details will be released once we get the decals in stock. 

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That's awesome, Bill.  For anyone running Maxxis it's a super deal!

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This is a great contingency program. Just curious what  the performance of the tire will be. I will definitely buy a set and see what the performance potential is for myself. I’m sure someone has been using them and will be ahead of the curve. Cash and tires for overall results. 2020 looks like it’s going to be a great year of racing 

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6 hours ago, mender said:

 

Dang, I should buy a set of these for my M3.  But just can't see buying a set of 4 year old tires.

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