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Drafting Banned!


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or Champcar officials with inconsistent enforcement that contradicts their own rulebook? You decide.

 

on Sunday morning at Pittsburgh our team received a black flag stop and go penalty for "bump drafting". Except we hadn't bumped anyone! It was explained to us that if it looks close, it's too close. No drafting allowed.

 

As a Miata, this only makes it more difficult to execute passes and simply required us to be more aggressive about taking away apexes under braking. Gone was any incentive to buddy up and play nice.

Booo.

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If I were you, I'd have gone and had a word with the race director about it. That's pretty bad of them to penalize you for bump drafting, or not even. There isn't any reason they should not let people bump draft. 

 

As a new part in the 2020 regs, it says that " CAR TO CAR CONTACT WILL RESULT IN A BLACK FLAG BEING ISSUED AND A TIME PENALTY TO BE SERVED." In 2019 it does not say such a thing and I would at least send an email to Mike about it.

 

I don't know of any wheel to wheel motorsport that people don't try to draft each other for an advantage. 

 

That really sucks. I hope this issue gets fixed soon. 

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There have been a few instances throughout the entire history of champcar where teams have been penalized or warned for bump drafting.

 

I believe 1 instance was in the 36 hour race in the northwest that almost decided the race.  Iirc.

 

Bump drafting is and has been a no no.

 

 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Correct. It's been in the BCCR forever. Perhaps it got deleted a few years back when the BCCR was shortened because people complained they couldn't read 60 pages. But yes, it's always been against the rules. 

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3 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

There have been a few instances throughout the entire history of champcar where teams have been penalized or warned for bump drafting.

 

I believe 1 instance was in the 36 hour race in the northwest that almost decided the race.  Iirc.

 

Bump drafting is and has been a no no.

 

 

Spokane 36, 2013. The second place car was getting pushed down the straights by another team. 

 

John said no.

Edited by mender
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6 minutes ago, mender said:

Spokane 36, 2012. The second place car was getting pushed down the straights by another team. 

 

John said no.

They eventually won after the car they were chasing broke down with about two laps left.

It was a hell of a race.  We placed 12th.

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Sounds like the corner workers calling in "what they think they see".

 

We had a similar situation at Thompson where we got BF'd for passing under yellow.  Corner worker was roughly 500 feet away whereas I was only 10 feet, I felt my depth perception was better.  Had to show Dana the video to get him to believe me over the corner worker, the video proved without question.  But when it happened a second time and I complained, he only asked if I had watched the video before talking to him.  He decided I would not have argued it if the video and my story didn't go together.  Irritating to no end that I had to defend myself this way yet I never saw a blue flag all weekend.  Also, final results don't show that the time in the pit was restored to our position even though Dana fully agreed I had been called in twice for something I didn't do.

 

Does this mean Chuamp is going to be come Lemons and hand out arbitrary penalties "because we said so"?

 

Very discouraging to hear this.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So it's inconsistent corner workers then. I know that I have bump drafted in I think every CC race I've competed in. Never once been called out on it, so were the corner workers not paying attention? Or inconsistency in enforcing a 'rule' that is written where? The rulebook says to leave racing room and that cars should avoid contact. In a situation like this contact is what everyone(almost everyone) wants to be happening.

 

Very frustrating that CC is making the racing less fun and being inconsistent. My request is to at least be consistent. No matter the decision made or the rule, CC needs to be more consistent in applying and enforcing things.

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41 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

So it's inconsistent corner workers then. I know that I have bump drafted in I think every CC race I've competed in. Never once been called out on it, so were the corner workers not paying attention? Or inconsistency in enforcing a 'rule' that is written where? The rulebook says to leave racing room and that cars should avoid contact. In a situation like this contact is what everyone(almost everyone) wants to be happening.

 

Very frustrating that CC is making the racing less fun and being inconsistent. My request is to at least be consistent. No matter the decision made or the rule, CC needs to be more consistent in applying and enforcing things.

It's my understanding every track has different corner workers which champcar can't control, only ask.  That said there's a lot of diversity in corner workers, and I bet there's some that will give a lot more freedom then others.  I think we should try to be consistent, but that should not be the expectation. 

 

I, for one, think bump drafting has no place in entry level endurance racing.  It's some racers first time on track, and that's stressful enough.  I had a blast doing it in Spec Miata, but brake zones, shift points, power, and bumpers are so different and ChampCar that it could cause a lot of incidents. 

 

For example, I raced a Camaro and a Miata on Sunday.  If the Miata bump drafted the Camaro past the 500-foot marker, which is the Camaro brakes zone, to the 200-foot marker which is the Miata brakes zone, that Camaro would be in the wall. 

 

If the Camaro bump draft in the Miata, it would destroy our diffuser, and there's such a power differential that it would likely spin us. 

Edited by LuckyKid
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Inconsistent? First we heard the word NO was Daytona 1,and never have heard differently, whats frustrating is being a fast car and not allowed.

 

 

5 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

such a power differential that it would likely spin us.

Just like miata on miata, its all about technique when in vastly different cars, as long as everyone is on the same page, alas, a moot point here

 

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1 hour ago, The Aero Man said:

In a situation like this contact is what everyone(almost everyone) wants to be happening.

For the record, do not ever bump my car on track. I must be in the minority here so I’m getting the word out. I have the orange #32 BMW, please do not bump draft.

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On 10/7/2019 at 7:40 PM, MMiskoe said:

Sounds like the corner workers calling in "what they think they see".

 

We had a similar situation at Thompson where we got BF'd for passing under yellow.  Corner worker was roughly 500 feet away whereas I was only 10 feet, I felt my depth perception was better.  Had to show Dana the video to get him to believe me over the corner worker, the video proved without question.  But when it happened a second time and I complained, he only asked if I had watched the video before talking to him.  He decided I would not have argued it if the video and my story didn't go together.  Irritating to no end that I had to defend myself this way yet I never saw a blue flag all weekend.  Also, final results don't show that the time in the pit was restored to our position even though Dana fully agreed I had been called in twice for something I didn't do.

 

Does this mean Chuamp is going to be come Lemons and hand out arbitrary penalties "because we said so"?

 

Very discouraging to hear this.

 

 


what place did you finish the race in ?

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15 hours ago, QuaTTro said:


what place did you finish the race in ?

In the end the 3 or 4 laps we lost did not impact the outcome of our race.  However, we finished 4th overall, 2nd in class so it wasn't as if we weren't in the hunt.  I would have had some serious heartburn if they had scored us off a podium finish because they didn't restore the laps they took.

 

 

OK, so not everyone wants to get bumped.  Got it.  It can be dangerous.  Got it.  But NO WAY do I want to get black flagged for being involved in a situation where I was only following closely or the recipient of a bump.  The problem I see is that I have no idea how a corner worker can tell the difference between two cars touching and two cars running 6" apart.

 

Point is corner workers can't always be relied on for accurate information.  Not their fault.

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2 hours ago, MMiskoe said:

In the end the 3 or 4 laps we lost did not impact the outcome of our race.  However, we finished 4th overall, 2nd in class so it wasn't as if we weren't in the hunt.  I would have had some serious heartburn if they had scored us off a podium finish because they didn't restore the laps they took.

 

 

OK, so not everyone wants to get bumped.  Got it.  It can be dangerous.  Got it.  But NO WAY do I want to get black flagged for being involved in a situation where I was only following closely or the recipient of a bump.  The problem I see is that I have no idea how a corner worker can tell the difference between two cars touching and two cars running 6" apart.

 

Point is corner workers can't always be relied on for accurate information.  Not their fault.

I get that.  Maybe allow a little more than 6 inches?  Is it that important to run with somebody that close for a measureable amount of time?

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I'm kinda wondering why that is green font....  haha.

 

I'm not into bump drafting.  

 

I mean I am into it.  In my car.  With somebody I trust working together.  At a high speed track.  For a sprint race.

 

Otherwise, I just dont see the risk reward working out.

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4 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I'm kinda wondering why that is green font....  haha.

 

I'm not into bump drafting.  

 

I mean I am into it.  In my car.  With somebody I trust working together.  At a high speed track.  For a sprint race.

 

Otherwise, I just dont see the risk reward working out.

 

Seriously, that was just to see if I could get the usual comments out of Jeff who plays along, he knows I don't mean it.  Bump drafting in a race is just not a good idea plus it is in violation of the no contact rule.  I have bumped people on the race track during track events playing around but it is in a straight line, I know them, we understand what we are doing, but we also understand anything can happen.  I have never that I can remember done it during a race.  Get a faster car or drive it faster through the previous turn, you won't need to bump draft anybody.

 

Here is a little tap at COTA playing around with a miata.

 

 

Edited by Burningham
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